UK team - ramster / scrawnybob hand - moved thread

[tbdbitl]

This is the comment that got me and I believe most:

i tried to protect Bobs short stack

Where I'm sure it's not the first time or team to have done it--nor the last.

I'm pretty sure that it will be the first and last time someone posts it!

[Ramster]

Which part of this dont you understand tb or are you just being selective in what you decide to read and respond to

Maybe i worded my original post wrong but i stand by my play and i did nothing wrong

[tbdbitl]

Which part of this dont you understand tb or are you just being selective in what you decide to read and respond to

Plain and simple you stated you tried to protect bob's stack.

I was just pointing out what some had a problem with in black and white--THATS WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. YOUR PROBLEM--NO ONE ELSES!

i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack
i tried to protect Bobs short stack

I guess I need to be educated as to what that means. Educate away!

[Ramster]

Maybe i worded my original post wrong but i stand by my play and i did nothing wrong

Plain and simple you stated you tried to protect bob's stack.

I was just pointing out what some had a problem with in black and white

and there was my reply in black and white

If you dont understand that the wording was wrong there is nothing else i can say or do to try and educate you

[Logan]

Is understandable that Ramster first post make feel that is colluting, to be true when read the post yesterday i kind of know this will blast in a figth because the words used in the post, but been Bob involve in the hand i know also that is no way he will give the ok to that, and after see the hand is no way this is collusion or softplay.

i like to answer Mo about this.

1. You admitted that you raised to protect (isolate) another team mate's short stack allin - that's collusion

This the hand posted by Bob.

Bob 275 (two seats around)
Ramster 1140
idi4phil (2,070)
OmahaOne (4,065)

di4phil posts small blind of 80
OmahaOne posts big blind of 160

scrawnybob get JQ diamonds raise allin 275
Ramster has 10 10 and reraises allin

Ramster had a real hand and push, this play is normal in every game private or not with a team member in or not, with his stack versus phil with 2 times his chips and Omaha with 4 times his chips can´t just raise because will look like is a steal and Omaha already in bb easy could call, with any card higher than 10 in flop then will be hard to play, and also any raise will take Ramster half stack.

Ramster was not that good in chips, if he lost versus Bob (like happen) then Ramster go down 275 chips wich put him with 895, that is NOT a good way to help the team even if Bob win 275 chips because then both are shorstacks. So he push allin to try to isolate big stack in bb and go 1-1 to bob. he have 4-2 or other crappy hand and push to give free chips to bob????, no, he have 10-10, so is not collusion or dumping chips.

Fact is that Bob should lose that hand and be out, if don´t happen is not Ramster fault.

About this.

2. "Bob won the hand and we probly picked up a few more points than if i'd folded" You think about folding here to chip up a team mate - which is not ok!

I don´t think Ramster could fold to chip up Bob, because even if Ramster fold, phil could call and omaha need less than 1bb more to call so omaha should call with any 2.

Probably Ramster could think in fold because still are 2 players left after his push (with 2 and 4 times his stack), if phil or omaha have a hand easy could call his allin, even if omaha have just Ax or KX or what ever hand with his stack could feel ok to gamble, and for only 275 chips that ramster could win also could be out, so is not insane to think in fold if need to push 1140 to win 275 (i probably push anyway in this situation).

So what i see here is that Ramster make a good play with the stack he have and cards he have. And you (Mo) are a smart good player, so im sure going to understand too.


The post Ramster make can be missunderstud?, yes i think it does, like comment above, when read it yesterday i knew that will blast a fight, but after see the hand im sure nothing wrong happen, but come on guys, i think this is out of proportion, some comments here was wayyy out of line but this is not surprise i most say.

That Ramster try to protect Bob´s shorstack?, yes, but is not tryng to protect Bob the teamy to stay in, he´s trying to protect Bob´s chips to get them, and thats not team play, that´s playing poker, and that is a play that could do versus anyone else.

About the softplaying, chipdumping in games, i know what are you saying Mo, and i do see it in some games, but again i don´t see players cards and can´t be sure, and even when rules suposedly be clear for all, still some times wonder if everyone know the rules or don´t care, but that maybe should be discused in other topic and not in here where the point was if Ramster was colluting and after seeing the HH i don´t think so.

Ramster and Bob already comment on this and Ramster already said that worded his original post wrong, don´t know what else can be said, maybe a apology to bob for this comment.

You should be embarrased at this type of collusion Bob. What are you going to do Bob? Or should we just gp ahead and report you two to the site?

[scrawnybob]

seriously please shut the *** up and read my damn posts

tbd it had been made clear TWICE in posts before you chipped in so
before you carry on getting arsy about this

Ive made my judgement - read it

ramster didnt cheat - I didnt cheat - ramster played the hand with NO intent to team play

your "plain and simple" - isnt .... read the posts instead of just jumping in half cocked

ramsters post wasnt worded very well - both he and I have posted an explaination

protect was a poor choice of words - maybe isolate would have been better - but I dont think ramster was expecting the Spanish Inquisition

I'm really really really steamed about peoples inability to READ things - instead repeatedly flying in with their view clearly without reading subsequent posts

I WILL tempory ban people just because I cannot be arsed with people who fail to read posts properly when its been explained over and over

at the moment there seem to be far too many people in the forum who are quick to critisise anything and everything

and far too slow to actually understand anyone elses POV or be prepared to listen / read things

thats the end of it - anymore quoting etc of the original quote without actually reading my posts and the explainations etc WILL result in tempory bans

I have far far far more important things to do with my time than faff around justifying my behaviour or other members who havent done anything wrong to member who are too dman quick to condemn without reading things

scrawnybob

ps. thanks Logan for another useful post explaining the hand - at least some people read everything and then contribute

[scrawnybob]

I can appreciate that some members were trying to constructively point out that maybe the rules needed clarifying ...

Quote: I do think Bob needs to clarify the rules since I understood there was to be NO team play.

which itself is fair enough (so not criticising anyone) but as Ive ruled that infact no rules were broken, there was no team play and there isnt IMHO any ambiguity on this ... I'm not sure the rules do need clarifying

they are the same as before

and the hand that has been being discussed here at length doesnt change that as the rules werent broken

anyway I hope that a reclarification that the rules are the same as they have always been will help - I will also judge fairly on anything else if needs be - but on the whole as far as I am aware most teams seem to understand the rules of what is and isnt allowed

cheers SB

[Logan]

Maybe not clarifiying, but make a reminder every new season (even if is the same post).

I think we assume that everyone knows the rules, but by personal experience know that some times players actually have a mistaken idea of team games, players that already play in other teams and still go to a new team and get angry if another partner does not softplay to them. Also, every season we have new teams/players coming, wich makes a reminder a need.

About clarification, not much to clarify, player should play like a normal game, no chip dumping, no softplay. That sometimes is hard to take out a teamy, yes, but that´s part of the game. But also, we have to remember that this are FRIENDLY PRIVATE games, wich mean people in here should be more civil.

If we see some one in a table softplaying a "hey, remember no softplay" even joking could fix more that to be rude, trow trash talk or threaten people.

Also we have to get the right proportion of things, if we see the prize for teams, in Fulltilt is $5 by head for the winning team, and still people cut the throat for that, top 3 individual players are 1st $25, 2nd $15 & 3rd $10. At least for me individual should be the focus in games for every player, and teams should be only a extra thing for the competition and fun.

My points are.

-Make a reminder of rules every new season (no extra work, just post again same rules in new season topic, not the link to the rules but the rules, maybe every team captain can copy paste this rules in his team topics every new season).
-People should try to be civil in games (and in forum)
-Try to get fun, is poker, don´t suposedly be fun?

At the end we all are in here because we want to, if some don´t like the games, or the play or what ever, we always can leave. If we want to stay then we always can talk and try to fix things in a good way.

[Terminal Frost]

Thank you, Logan. Exactly.

Each new season brings new teams and new players and I have seen exactly the situations that you describe (teamie getting mad because his teamie raised him, etc).

Since some forums have had games where softplaying and team play was allowed, it can be confusing to new players.

[rgchan]

I,m glad this situation was resolved quietly.The players involved here are not rookies.Congrats to the Team Captains for stepped in to diffuse this situation.But a season beginning reminder is a great suggestion Logan.It would have been a great Team play move imo to RAISE Big even with a 4-9 o to take the reamining players out of the Pot giving a team-mate a better chance.That would have been obvious though.But he had a legitimate hand (pocket 10,s) and was only interested in taking his team mates chips rather than someone else from another Team.
Your teams are both solid and knowledgeable.I don,t think a rookie could think up as smart as a stragedy as that. lol
No harm ,, no foul
Cheers all around ..
Rg