Team "strategy" rules clarification

[scrawnybob]

hi all

ok this isnt aimed specifically at any team as I think it would be fair to say this is a topic / area that has been discussed to some degree or another by alot of teams

so I think maybe our rules need re-clarifying to make it crystal clear and also to maybe get people to be a bit more chilled about playing in a team / scoring in team league

There is NO need for a team strategy or even really private team discussions on strategy

basically our team league scoring and games are NOT like other sites team only leagues as we score our leagues both individually and as teams

therefore as Ive already outlined team play / collusion / soft play / chip dumping etc etc are NOT allowed

our games are after all Individual player leagues first and foremost with team scoring bolted on

our games are NOT meant to be played as a colluding or co-operating team basis as that negates the individual angle

they are simply individual games - every man and woman for themselves where in addition the 4 members scores are combined to see who has the best team of individual players

NOT the best team and being organised and colluding or avoiding each other -

(IMHO thats pointless and lame and while other sites can run leagues how they like I dont see the point of team leagues the way they do them you may as well allow IM)

I am aware that on several teams either concern for other teams "co-operating" or determination to score well is leading to feeling the need for a "strategy" or a formula for different senarios etc etc

ie. what if this ? what if that ? etc etc in order to maximise the number of team mates getting higher or at the very least to minimise taking team mates out

I have made it very very clear all along that this is NOT how our leagues and the team angle of them should be played - there isnt a grey area - it also isnt a "cant beat them join em" approaach either - if you feel teams are colluding in hands let me know - PM me - dont join them

ok so PREFLOP in exactly the same way as playing individually you can decide NOT to get in a hand against someone because you fear them you could equally decide that you dont want to get in a hand with a team mate because you dont want to loose to them either that I think is ok because as an individual player you should be making player based decisions anyway ... ie. my 88 would be playable against player A but not player B or I CAN play a semi bluff with 78 suited against player C but I wont get away with it against player D

now at the PREFLOP stage thats fine - your making the same decisions you would individually as is your right to fold or play

however where the problems seem to be coming up is in situations like this ...

when a team mate chooses to play aggressively into you (and maybe other players) - as they would in individual - and some seem to think that as a team mate they owe their team mates an easier ride and shouldnt have bluffed / pushed / re-raised or outplayed them ... THEY DONT

play to win, play to survive, play as you would as an individual as every man (or woman) for themselves

obviously IM / MSN etc isnt allowed as that is obvious cheating etc but I appreciate that some people feel aggreived if their team mates play against them as if theyre not in the same team - thats as it should be - the games are NOT team only games

If following the rules there is ZERO need for any private strategy discussions to know what to do if xyz happens ... its simple YOU do what is best for YOU ... ALL the time

now if you decide that you dont want to lock horns with a team mate on a hand - then PREFLOP fold is fine ... if you suddenly find your in a hand where you opponent re-raises you etc and you feel your best option is to fold - then fold - you made a mistake / they outplayed you ... but please dont moan about it and try to discuss premeditated ways of avoiding each other in these situations -

you simply got caught out by a better hand or a hand that was played better

just to make things clear the "private" social group sections are NOT intentionally private for off the record / private discussions ... the privacy side is an unintended side effect of the way we set up the teams up so that captains etc can make sure they have their 4 members and no more and invite only and no end up with new members just joining multiple teams -

I didnt expect the privacy to be used for anything underhand & Ive always tried to encourage teams to discuss results / play etc in the open forum as this means other teams members could join in - and its much more interesting for everyone

I can look at getting the setting customised and changed if needs be - but most importantly I wanted to again address and clarify the rules and the spirit of our league games

it would be a shame to disolve the teams - as it could so easily work well - so I hope all teams will play in the leagues as intended and as the rules have clearly been being stated

cheers scrawnybob

[Logan]

Some times is hard to players understand that our games are same like the open games, difference is that players in your team get points for endings but still is a individual game.

I see it like when we set in the forum a day/time and we all go to play open games (example: when we go to play Carbon/Aced weeks back), of course you prefeer that a friend, teamy or some one that you know from the forum get far in the games versus a not known player, but at the end is a individual game and softplay or collude is cheating, wich is a no no for me.

Of course in teams you get pasionate about this and competivity make a great factor to try to win, but still is not worth to win cheating, at least for me.

Glad that this is cleared Bob.

[tking888]

i was mislead by my past experiences with team play. i hope everbody reads this so we will all be on the same page.

[Loonzy]

I am looking forward to playing as an individual in this league.....sounds like a fun time.....i prefer to fight on my own

[tking888]

aww loon, your quite the lil scrapper too! you will go far.

[Poker Orifice]

Great post Scrawny.

I'm surprised to think that anyone would ever alter their play OR even consider making some kind of strategy plan for a 'team' type thing. To be honest it kinda pisses me off a bit.

I always look at the team thing as... you play a tournament then the scores/pts. of your team members are added together at the end (.. with no difference whether you were even in the same tournament). Kinda bugs me a bit to hear that there's a possiblity that other's aren't or weren't thinking along the same lines (not saying they 'were'... but your post does kinda lead one to believe that there's been some discussions re: team strategy). Hoping it was just a misunderstanding on their part.

In previous seasons I've had a member of my own team get pisssed off at me for stealing their blinds?? This amazed/surprised/shocked me quite a bit. Some of my teamies in the past I found to be very easy to steal blinds from so.. obviously I'm going to steal their blinds.. 'often' (why wouldn't i?).

Hope everyone reads this post. (< not 'my post'... I mean 'Scrawny Bob's post'... had to clarify that... just so that there weren't any priv. discussions about it)

[PLAYFUL1]

HMMM SUM PEOPLE JUST GET OFF ON PICKING ON THE SAME PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN... CANNOT B HELPED OR POLICED...PLAYFUL AGREES THAT PRIVATE DECUSSIONS ABOOT HANDS AND PLAYERS SHUD BE KNOT ALLOWED EITHER

[Poker Orifice]

HMMM SUM PEOPLE JUST GET OFF ON PICKING ON THE SAME PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN... CANNOT B HELPED OR POLICED...PLAYFUL AGREES THAT PRIVATE DECUSSIONS ABOOT HANDS AND PLAYERS SHUD BE KNOT ALLOWED EITHER

I've never actually noticed certain players being 'picked on' & actually have never noticed anyother type of softplay or unfair methods of playing (not to say there hasn't been any... I just haven't noticed it at all).

What would be the problem with discussing hands? (or are you referring to 'discussing them 'while' they're playing?).

[Peteyweestro]

I know that on our team its kill or be killed,lol we will take each other out if the need presents itself and we are all cool with it

[Poker Orifice]

I know that on our team its kill or be killed,lol we will take each other out if the need presents itself and we are all cool with it

THis is true, lol. (I think I KO'd Peteyweestro the week before(?) & this week snoopsters KO'd me right near the start of the game.. argh!!!!, lol). AND I wouldn't be happy with it being anyother way. (except obviously I'd prefer to be the one winning, lol)