Was I wrong calling allin

[rgchan]

I know you as a more aggressive player than this hand Al. You hit Top Pair Ace kicker and only bet 60 when like 5 players called the 260 preflop ?? It wasn,t a slow play was it ?? Even polarbear re-raised 120 with the bottom pair who should be shot. !! It was a good time for double raise at that time to take it down before the Turn.Once the Ace hit yes you pretty much had to call the ALL IN.
Rg

[Alnoble]

Rg I think the brain took a break like tonight at pkr. Good hand by the way.

[Poker Orifice]

Originally Posted by Alnoble

I know someone will tell me where I went wrong here


Blinds are now $10/$20
Button is at seat 3
Seat 1: franckiyi - $1,930
Seat 2: alnoble - $1,650
Seat 3: johan1403 - $2,110
Seat 4: KRZYZANOWSKI - $1,950
Seat 5: Polarbear1 - $2,060
Seat 6: kbeaudet - $2,200
Seat 7: thedaves - $2,140
Seat 8: IOVERLORDI - $2,000
Seat 9: Byssatopop45 - $1,960
Moving Button to seat 4
Polarbear1 posts small blind ($10)
kbeaudet posts big blind ($20)

Dealing [Qc As] to alnoble
thedaves folds
IOVERLORDI folds
Byssatopop45 raises to $100
franckiyi folds
alnoble raises to $260
johan1403 calls $260
KRZYZANOWSKI calls $260
Polarbear1 calls $260
kbeaudet folds
Byssatopop45 folds
Dealing Flop [4h 7d Qh]
Polarbear1 checks
alnoble bets $60
johan1403 calls $60
KRZYZANOWSKI calls $60
Polarbear1 raises to $120
alnoble raises to $180 (I meant to raise more here but clicked wrong button)
johan1403 calls $180
KRZYZANOWSKI folds
Polarbear1 calls $180
Dealing Turn [Ad]
Polarbear1 bets $1,620 (all-in)
alnoble calls $1,210 (all-in)
johan1403 folds
Returning $410 to Polarbear1 uncalled
alnoble shows [Qc As]
Polarbear1 shows [4s Ac]

Of course you know what came on the river


Dealing River [4c]
Polarbear1 has Full House, 4s over Aces
Polarbear1 wins $4,180 with: Full House, 4s over Aces

First of all, it's early levels and I'm never 3-betting a 5bb EP raise (I'll actually more than likely fold instead, as in a decent game, AJ is NEVER opening for 5x in EP, and the only hands that are (or should be) have me dominated.
"IF" it's a really bad table (as this one here obviously is).. I don't want to 3bet "BUT" if I do 3bet, my goal is to isolate the 5bb raiser, and a 3bet of 3.5x the size of the opening raise is pretty much standard (sometimes more).... so you'd need to raise to '350'.

Here by raising to 260 on what appears to be a really loose table, you're just bloating up the pot.

FLOP... the open 'min' bet is really, really, really awful in my opinion (I'm trying to be nice). What are we hoping to accomplish by 'minbetting' this flop? (is this to induce someone else to raise us?). It's a muti-way pot (4-handed) and 'maybe' our hand is best, there's also 2-hearts on the fllop. So... what is our course of action?.. we bet out of course. Why are we betting? For a few reasons, (although mostly 2 of them), we are betting for value and are betting to protect our made hand (minbetting accomplishes neither). Do we get called by worse hands on this board if we were to lead out with ~3/4 to 7/8 pot? ... Yes... I think we do on such a bad table (ie. KQ). Do the draws call us here? Perhaps... & if so we need to make them pay to do so.
On a good table you'd rarely see this scenario of 3flatcallers of a 3bet (if someone held a hand that was good enough to call this raise, then surely it'd be good enough to 4bet (because aren't they going to be basically getting it allin on the flop?... the pot will surely be big enough too).
I would bet out 3/4pot on the flop, if I'm shoved back on it'd be player read dependant (does he have the set, having called he 3bet preflop without implied odds to do so as stacks aren't deep enough to be set-mining.... OR is he aggessively playing back at me with AhKh << and didn't 4bet pre with it?). Being that it's a weak table of players and that after the cbet you'll have only enough chips left for a decent turn shove vs. one opponent, I'd probably call the shove on the flop if someone played back at me.

As played.....umm.. I don't know what I'd do.
... hope this helps

[Alnoble]

PO I think I answered the min bet after the flop earlier. Brain not in gear, senior moment, idiot head on call it what you like and you don't have to be kind.

I've enjoyed the discussion it's started and I'll not make the same mistake again.

Can't say I wont make othes though.

Last couple of days I've tighten up a lot and made the low levels of money but possibly too tight to reach the top.

Since joinning this forum my game has evolved and I'm improving, I hope some day to be able to play for decent money to suplliment my pitiful salary

Threads like this are always helpful

[eberetta1]

I see nothing wrong with the play. I usually all in if I hit top pair face card w/ace kicker to reduce number of callers.(I don't do allin if Ace pair unless I also paired 2nd highest card). Sometimes the highest hand on the turn is no longer the highest hand on the river. If everyone woulda flipped over their cards up after the turn, would you still of stayed in the hand? I would have. There was no flush or str8 possible.
So just like Omaha, you just hope no duplicate card comes up on the river. Or even if it does, with all the raising that went on earlier, why would anyone in their right mind have a 4 in their hand at this stage of the game.

But as Playful observes, if a chip leader is in the hand, they will play with any 2 cards and laugh all the way to the bank.

I did lose a tourney this week when A4 was in my hand and an A-9-4 flopped. I went all in getting one caller. He had an AK. And sure enough on the river the K popped up, taking me out of a tourney on the third hand. It was such an easy tourney, that I coulda sat ut the rest of the game and made the money, if that hand would have held up.

[Poker Orifice]

Al, I could elaborate further on any pts. I've made above if you're interested (or if anyone else is),... ie. if there's a comment or move I've mentioned that needs/wants clarification (or further expanded upon), just say it! {ie. not having implied odds to call the 3bet preflop with a low/med. pkt. pr. in hopes of set-mining... I could expand upon that for example, or anything else I've written above, cuz after re-reading it over right now I'm thinking there's a few pts. that might be good to explain in further detail).
let me know,
GL on the tables & thanks for posting this! (anything that gets the thought processes going is all great stuff!!)

[Alnoble]

PO

Thank you for the offer I know you have a lot of good comments to make as I have read a lot of you constructive post on this forum. In this case I'm reasonably clear where I went wrong and that was on my post flop play.

I believe there are 2 types of poker on the internet good and bad. Micro and freeroll is generally bad because of all the chasers out there who will see the river at any cost. I need to adjust my game to take this into account as currently I don't have the BR to move up the stakes.

The good side to poker is the private games like 4KP or the higher stake games where you get respect for your plays. That doesn't mean you are not going to get called but when you do it's usually because you given the others the odds to call or they have you beat anyway.

[hojediade]

Originally Posted by Alnoble

The good side to poker is the private games like 4KP or the higher stake games where you get respect for your plays. That doesn't mean you are not going to get called but when you do it's usually because you given the others the odds to call or they have you beat anyway.

You probably didn't play enough with me yet, nor you would probably change your mind.
Just kidding Al.
And i agree, PO always have the best and useful posts. The strange thing about it is that PO shared it with us for free. I guess i know why, he probably give us only half of the answer to be paid later on.
BTW, i still wonder why you don't "coach" players PO. I guess you probably think you still have a lot to learn, but that shouldn't avoid you to coach other players (and earn money of course).
Just my 2 cents there.

[Poker Orifice]

I didn't mean "further comments on your play", I meant for eg. expanding on a comment like >> "villain shouldn't have called preflop in this spot with a low or med. pkt pr. as they're not getting the implied odds to set mine"... and then further expandd on that.

tks for the kind words

[Poker Orifice]

Maybe this guy ^ got 'sucked' out on??? What would compel someone to add this crap here?