Crazy Call or not

[Alnoble]

Did going allin force the call from the small pair or was he just crazy.

I don't think I could have played any other way. AA twice in this tournement first time everyone folded to a small raise so won peanuts this time lost.

PokerStars - $0.90+$0.10|1000/2000 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players


Hero (SB): 48,786.00
BB: 39,664.00
UTG: 2,679.00
UTG+1: 8,536.00
MP: 23,707.00
MP+1: 10,599.00
CO: 38,882.00
BTN: 5,175.00

Hero posts ante 250.00, BB posts ante 250.00, UTG posts ante 250.00, UTG+1 posts ante 250.00, MP posts ante 250.00, MP+1 posts ante 250.00, CO posts ante 250.00, BTN posts ante 250.00, Hero posts SB 1,000.00, BB posts BB 2,000.00

Pre Flop: (5000.00) Hero has A:diamond: A:spade:

UTG raises to 2,429.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 4,000.00, fold, fold, Hero raises to 48,536.00 and is all-in, fold, MP+1 calls 6,349.00 and is all-in

Flop: (27127.00, 3 players) J:spade: 3:club: 3:spade:

Turn: (27127.00, 3 players) 5:spade:

River: (27127.00, 3 players) T:heart:

Hero shows A:diamond: A:spade: (Two Pair, Aces and Threes)
MP+1 shows 5:heart: 5:club: (Full House, Fives full of Threes)
UTG shows Q:diamond: Q:heart: (Two Pair, Queens and Threes)
MP+1 wins 27,127.00

[GOIVIT]

Very unlucky, recently I have seen a lot of players going all in with small to med. pp's pre-flop. I don't get it, most of the time they have to hit to win.

[Assistanc3]

at MP+1 turn the pot is 7429, he min raises hoping to look strong (generate a side pot) pot is now 11,429 and you raise to put him all in...to call 6,349 for a 27,127 pot even if you call and see a flop, one of you is pushing the flop or turn and both are calling

were you able to recover in this tournament and cash out?
Your stack was still healthy

[Alnoble]

Yes I carried on to the money and finished 6th. It was another small pair that did the damage at the final table 44 against AJ, but that was not quite the same. I was getting tierd then we had been playing over 4 hours.

[Poker Orifice]

[quote=Alnoble;86180]Did going allin force the call from the small pair or was he just crazy.

What was 'crazy' imo is that a 10bb stack put in a raise over the SuperShortStack's couple of bb shove. Why he doesn't just ship it here is beyond me? (unless as Assistance suggests... he was only raising in an effort to look strong.. but in a $1 donkament I kinda doubt this was their reasoning, more likely just a weird play when they should just be shipping it).
btw.... if the guy holding the sm. pr. there folds in that hand... he is REALLY CRAZY!
Did you shove force the call? He's obviously calling anything once he's put in 40% + of his stack here. Don't think it matters what happens preflop (... does he ever fold postflop if you were to flat?... if he does then he's worse than I'm guessing).
Did you not want to have them get all of their chips in with you preflop?

I don't think I could have played any other way. AA twice in this tournement first time everyone folded to a small raise so won peanuts this time lost.

Your questioning here really looks like 'results oriented thinking'. When what I think (KNOW) you want to be doing is.... thinking about "how do I get my opponent to committ all of their chips?!?!?!"... Not > can I get them to fold cuz I'm holding AA.

[Poker Orifice]

A bit of a derail.... but was interested in knowing the thought process that provokes this call here....
(and will add my analysis after)

Full Tilt Poker Game #24565873564: 4kingpoker Cup (189261369), Table 4 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:28:39 ET - 2010/10/09
Seat 1: mac is back1 (1,245), is sitting out
Seat 2: grilldoggy (1,390), is sitting out
Seat 3: DeepchapChopra (1,085)
Seat 4: rgchan (2,445)
Seat 5: phillyphilly (1,735)
Seat 6: dci_assassin (1,195)
Seat 7: vegasjj49 (1,225)
Seat 8: tbdbitl82 (1,465)
Seat 9: alnoble (1,470)
grilldoggy posts the small blind of 25
DeepchapChopra posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DeepchapChopra [Ah Kc]
rgchan has 15 seconds left to act
rgchan folds
phillyphilly folds
dci_assassin folds
vegasjj49 folds
tbdbitl82 folds
alnoble has 15 seconds left to act
alnoble raises to 225
mac is back1 folds
grilldoggy folds
DeepchapChopra raises to 1,085, and is all in
alnoble has 15 seconds left to act
alnoble has requested TIME
alnoble calls 860
DeepchapChopra shows [Ah Kc]
alnoble shows [As Jh]
*** FLOP *** [7c 2c 8s]
*** TURN *** [7c 2c 8s] [Td]
*** RIVER *** [7c 2c 8s Td] [Js]
DeepchapChopra shows Ace King high
alnoble shows a pair of Jacks
alnoble wins the pot (2,195) with a pair of Jacks

[Poker Orifice]

I was quite surprised to see I'd get a call in this spot.

You raise 4.5x in CO..
BB shoves 22bb's
and you quickly call.

This was surprising to me because I was wondering what kind of hand range you'd put me on in this spot (early levels, shoving 22bb's over a 4.5x raise).

You're getting 1.55 to 1 (needing to call 860 chips into a pot of 1335) & from a cEV standpoint you'd need to have 39% eq . I'm pretty certain that AJ never even has close to 39%eq in a spot like this.

Typically my range here would be TT+,AQo+ (never flatting with any of these hands... & a 3bet just looks way toooo strong (ie. with AA, KK).. & way more likely to get action if it's just shoved along with rest of range. AJo has ~27% equity vs. this range (in other words > terrible).
At worst my range here would be 99+,AQ+ and still AJo only has 29%.

Even if we were to exclude AA, & KK from my range here (as I can see how it could be perceived this way... & is actually more reason why I'm shipping that along with the rest of my range in this spot... also we're more likely to get paid off by a loose call pre by hands that would likely fold postflop).... so even if we were to exclude AA, KK... and then loosely add 44+ to our range here, AJo still only has 36% equity.
{note - I'm never re-shoving with <AQ here in this spot... AJ, AT & I'd be folding}

Just curious as to what the thought process was in this spot (always nice to know what others are thinking on the tables).

[Assistanc3]

Why he doesn't just ship it here is beyond me? (unless as Assistance suggests... he was only raising in an effort to look strong.. but in a $1 donkament I kinda doubt this was their reasoning, more likely just a weird play when they should just be shipping it)

depends on where about they are in the tournament the all-in is meaningless if MP+1 is going to raise w/ a small pkt pr anyways and would love for an Ax or weaker pkt pair to shove and try to get dead money side pot. MP+1 needs to chip up with 4 big stacks at the table.

[Poker Orifice]

depends on where about they are in the tournament the all-in is meaningless if MP+1 is going to raise w/ a small pkt pr anyways and would love for an Ax or weaker pkt pair to shove and try to get dead money side pot. MP+1 needs to chip up with 4 big stacks at the table.

What? You've lost me here.

Also, I want to re-write my response (a bit), I was thinking the blinds were 500/1,000 when I responded, but now looking at it again I see it's 1k/2k. NONE of the stacks are deep on this table. Why MP1 minraises here is really odd - - he's got 5bb's so put the puney pile in (he might even have some FE).

Assisstanc3... let me see if I'm getting you right here... are you suggesting that MP1 is min-raising in hopes of an Ax hand shoving over top of them? (that makes no sense to me???). Why would they want to appear super strong if they're looking to get Ax hands to shove.. & why would any Ax hand ship it over a Super shortstack's 'minraise'? (esp. with the stack sizes on this table).

imo this hand is real straightforward. MP1 makes a weird play (should've shoved) and table dynamics seem real strange... I mean look at it, they're all real short? (wondering what stage of the game this is & for what MTT?).

[Poker Orifice]

depends on where about they are in the tournament the all-in is meaningless if MP+1 is going to raise w/ a small pkt pr anyways and would love for an Ax or weaker pkt pair to shove and try to get dead money side pot. MP+1 needs to chip up with 4 big stacks at the table.

Are you saying that you think MP1 is only minraising in an effort to have another player think they have FE when they ship it (in hopes of picking up the deadmoney in the sidepot)??? Honestly, do you think ANY player would think that a 5bb stack would fold after min-raising here.... EVER? (I mean I've seen alot of really bad players in the sup. micros... but a 5bb stack raising 2x then folding with 3bb's left in stack?.. I can't see it happening).
... maybe I've misinterpretted your response?