prove it!

[madjek]

The biggest argument I see about online poker not being rigged is the fact that you play so many more hands. So, every time someone talks about badbeats, there is always numerous posts how a 2 or 3 outer beat them also. So if there are so many more hands played, there should be twice (or more) as many times a 2 or 3 outer loses. So I challenge the "theres no way is rigged" people to post their hands when they go to showdown against a 2 or 3 outer and it holds up. AS I said, takes no time to fill up a thread with 2 or 3 outer badbeats. Getting to the point where I don't even get excited with A K and an A on the flop. Almost always A rag that beats it.

[nb1961]

I'm not sure what it will prove but here you go here's one


PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players


UTG+1: $5.22
MP: $1.88
MP+1: $6.38
Hero (CO): $4.93
BTN: $5.00
SB: $10.58
BB: $5.00
UTG: $12.82

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has K A

fold, fold, MP calls $0.05, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, SB calls $0.13, fold, MP calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.50, 3 players) 7 K A
SB checks, MP bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, fold

Turn: ($0.80, 2 players) 6
MP bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.65, MP calls $0.45

River: ($2.10, 2 players) T
MP checks, Hero bets $1.00, MP calls $0.93 and is all-in

Hero shows K A (Two Pair, Aces and Kings) (PreFlop 72%, Flop 96%, Turn 95%)
MP shows 6 K (Two Pair, Kings and Sixes) (PreFlop 28%, Flop 4%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins $3.77

[nb1961]

Just to back that one up, I've been playing again at Pokerstars for a few months and in that time I have had

AA 96 times and won 93%
AK suited 68 times and won 75%
KK 94 times and won 91%
QQ 93 times and won 81%
JJ 101 times and won 76%

With a total of approx $174 won over those 5 premium hands @ a mixture of 5nl and 10nl. This is one of the reasons I use poker tracker so I can look back and get a realistic picture of what is happening not one skewed by a day or two of bad beats.

Yesterday I dropped 3 buy ins at 10nl down to some beats and even more bad play. I looked back over the sessions this morning and what in my head I thought was a really bad session with a number of bad beats, turn out to be mainly down to my bad play.

What I'm trying to say is don't trust your memory of a session as your brain and ego tries to fool you into thinking it is not your fault. It's easy to blame donkeys or a rigged site, it's harder to look back over a session and realise your not as good a you thought you were.

Just my thoughts, sermon over, Happy New Year

[Ravensfan929]

The biggest argument I see about online poker not being rigged is the fact that you play so many more hands. So, every time someone talks about badbeats, there is always numerous posts how a 2 or 3 outer beat them also. So if there are so many more hands played, there should be twice (or more) as many times a 2 or 3 outer loses. So I challenge the "theres no way is rigged" people to post their hands when they go to showdown against a 2 or 3 outer and it holds up. AS I said, takes no time to fill up a thread with 2 or 3 outer badbeats. Getting to the point where I don't even get excited with A K and an A on the flop. Almost always A rag that beats it.

Dont know if its rigged or not but i do agree wit the ace rag part cuz almost everytime i got the bigger ace and were all in that damn ace rag always hits lol.

[madjek]

I'm not sure what it will prove but here you go here's one


PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players


UTG+1: $5.22
MP: $1.88
MP+1: $6.38
Hero (CO): $4.93
BTN: $5.00
SB: $10.58
BB: $5.00
UTG: $12.82

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has K A

fold, fold, MP calls $0.05, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, SB calls $0.13, fold, MP calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.50, 3 players) 7 K A
SB checks, MP bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, fold

Turn: ($0.80, 2 players) 6
MP bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.65, MP calls $0.45

River: ($2.10, 2 players) T
MP checks, Hero bets $1.00, MP calls $0.93 and is all-in

Hero shows K A (Two Pair, Aces and Kings) (PreFlop 72%, Flop 96%, Turn 95%)
MP shows 6 K (Two Pair, Kings and Sixes) (PreFlop 28%, Flop 4%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins $3.77

I feel better already

[scrawnybob]

hi all

I nominate nb1961 for best poker is rigged reply to date

not only have you put my thoughts and words across better than I normally do but you have backed it up with solid stats and recognising that the mind tells you what you want to hear

this is one good reason to look at your stats properly if you feel the sites are rigged - look at your stats impartially

great post NB

cheers SB

[madjek]

Just to back that one up, I've been playing again at Pokerstars for a few months and in that time I have had

AA 96 times and won 93%
AK suited 68 times and won 75%
KK 94 times and won 91%
QQ 93 times and won 81%
JJ 101 times and won 76%

To be honest, I'd rather see your stats for A rag(of someone who plays it regularly), and small PP's(same as above). I agree, I like to use "rigged" to make me feel better, but in the back of my mind, sometimes I do wonder, but I wouldn't keep playing if I really thought it was definately rigged.

[Logan]

A special for madjek.

This is my session today, one of those days when aparently can´t win 80/20, 70/30, 60/40, 50/50, pretty much nothing.

enjoy it

Hand 1
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 9 players
Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is UTG+1 with A A
1 fold, Hero raises to t400, 1 fold, MP1 raises to t1215 all in, 5 folds, Hero calls t815

Flop: (t2580) 5 T 2
Turn: (t2580) 3
River: (t2580) J

MP1 shows K A (a flush, Ace high)
Hero shows A A (a pair of Aces)
MP1 wins t2580
===========================

Hand 2
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players
Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is MP2 with K K
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t30, MP1 raises to t135 all in, Hero raises to t1500 all in, 5 folds

Flop: (t345) J T 5
Turn: (t345) Q
River: (t345) 4

MP1 shows 4 4 (three of a kind, Fours)
Hero shows K K (a pair of Kings)
MP1 wins t345
==============================

Hand 3
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 6 players

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is SB with J J
4 folds, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to t1365 all in, BB calls t1165

Flop: (t2730) 7 4 A
Turn: (t2730) 4
River: (t2730) 3

Hero shows J J (two pair, Jacks and Fours)
BB shows A 8 (two pair, Aces and Fours)
BB wins t2730
===============================

Hand 4
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 4 players

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is SB with T T
CO raises to t1110 all in, 1 fold, Hero raises to t2075 all in, 1 fold

Flop: (t2420) 7 K K
Turn: (t2420) Q
River: (t2420) K

Hero shows T T (a full house, Kings full of Tens)
CO shows Q A (a full house, Kings full of Queens)
CO wins t2420
=============================

Hand 5
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t60/t120 Blinds - 9 players

Pre Flop: (t180) Hero is BTN with 8 8
5 folds, CO raises to t475 all in, Hero raises to t1090 all in, 2 folds

Flop: (t1130) J A Q
Turn: (t1130) 7
River: (t1130) 3

CO shows 9 A (a flush, Ace high)
Hero shows 8 8 (a pair of Eights)
CO wins t1130
==========================

Hand 6
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 8 players

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is MP2 with A K
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t350 all in, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1066 all in, CO calls t1066, 3 folds

Flop: (t2632) Q T 2
Turn: (t2632) 7
River: (t2632) 7

UTG+1 shows 5 5 (two pair, Sevens and Fives)
Hero shows A K (a pair of Sevens)
CO shows Q A (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
CO wins t1432
CO wins t1200
==========================

Hand 7
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds - 4 players

Pre Flop: (t600) Hero is BTN with Q A
1 fold, Hero raises to t1570 all in, 1 fold, BB calls t1170
Flop: (t3340) 3 4 6
Turn: (t3340) 7
River: (t3340) 8

Hero shows Q A (Ace Queen high)
BB shows 5 A (a straight, Eight high)
BB wins t3340
=========================


So, what to do with this times, just think is rigged?, umm not really, all are pretty standard plays that happen every day and need to deal with all this to the point not afect your game anymore, i could just blow and get in tilt but that don´t help in nothing and just will end screw, so what we do is just forget about hands until session is over, then review them and see if was bad play or bad luck wich helps to actually improve.

Continued in next post....

[Logan]

We forget about all past hands when we still playing, that way we don´t change our game and make more mistakes.

Same session.

Hand 8
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t120/t240 Blinds - 2 players

Pre Flop: (t360) Hero is BTN/SB with 7 7
Hero raises to t2950 all in, BB calls t2710

Flop: (t5900) 6 5 4
Turn: (t5900) 3
River: (t5900) 4

BB shows 9 K (a pair of Fours)
Hero shows 7 7 (a straight, Seven high)
Hero wins t5900
===========================

Hand 9
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t80/t160 Blinds - 5 players

Pre Flop: (t240) Hero is SB with Q A
2 folds, BTN raises to t480, Hero raises to t1585 all in, 1 fold, BTN calls t1105
Flop: (t3330) 6 9 8
Turn: (t3330) 9
River: (t3330) 4

BTN shows K Q (a pair of Nines)
Hero shows Q A (a pair of Nines)
Hero wins t3330
========================

Hand 10
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 9 players

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is UTG+2 with A Q
2 folds, Hero raises to t156, 1 fold, MP2 raises to t360 all in, 4 folds, Hero calls t204
Flop: (t810) 2 2 3
Turn: (t810) 7
River: (t810) 5
Hero shows A Q (a pair of Twos)
MP2 shows Q J (a pair of Twos)
Hero wins t810
==========================

Hand 11
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds - 3 players

Pre Flop: (t450) Hero is BB with Q K
1 fold, SB raises to t2212 all in, Hero calls t1912
Flop: (t4424) K T 2
Turn: (t4424) 4
River: (t4424) 2

SB shows 6 A (a pair of Twos)
Hero shows Q K (two pair, Kings and Twos)
Hero wins t4424
===========================

Hand 12
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds - 2 players

Pre Flop: (t600) Hero is BTN/SB with K Q
Hero raises to t2714 all in, BB calls t2314

Flop: (t5428) 3 K 9
Turn: (t5428) K
River: (t5428) 2

BB shows Q A (a pair of Kings)
Hero shows K Q (three of a kind, Kings)
Hero wins t5428
========================

Hand 13
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t120/t240 Blinds - 4 players

Pre Flop: (t360) Hero is BB with Q J
CO raises to t770 all in, 2 folds, Hero calls t530

Flop: (t1660) J 3 A
Turn: (t1660) K
River: (t1660) T

Hero shows Q J (a straight, Ace high)
CO shows 5 A (a pair of Aces)
Hero wins t1660
===========================

Hand 14
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t120/t240 Blinds - 3 players

Pre Flop: (t360) Hero is BB with K 8
1 fold, SB raises to t11205 all in, Hero calls t775 all in

Flop: (t2030) J A T
Turn: (t2030) 8
River: (t2030) Q

SB shows J J (three of a kind, Jacks)
Hero shows K 8 (a straight, Ace high)
Hero wins t2030
=======================

Hand 15
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds - 2 players

Pre Flop: (t450) Hero is BB with 8 4
BTN/SB calls t150, Hero checks

Flop: (t600) 9 8 7
Hero bets t600, BTN/SB raises to t1200, Hero calls t600
Turn: (t3000) 8
Hero bets t5360 all in, BTN/SB calls t5140 all in
River: (t13280) T

BTN/SB shows 9 7 (two pair, Nines and Eights)
Hero shows 8 4 (three of a kind, Eights)
Hero wins t13280

Sudenly, our hands start to hold and even we get a little luck too. This was same session wich after all end positive, but can happen next session, next day, next 20 games, and if you get on tilt because the gods are against you, then you go broke.

The point is you need to get something positive playing, if just play get beat and think is rigged just help your ego, get you in tilt and blind you, but surely don´t help your game, if you review your session and find leaks well that is part of learn, but if we just get to the point to sit there and expect poker is a atm where we going to win every time, is not real.

The best player can have a downswing and the worst player can have a hot streak, but with time just get used to.

If is just for recreational then just enjoy the games but consider that game is not fair, is a gamble, but like the stock market you still can have some study and try to invest in the better stocks.

[madjek]

Just had to add this to the mix, I think it counts as 5-10 badbeats. On PS, idiot has been raises almost every hand, and I mean from 50 (bb) to 666, then bet 6666 after flop. Once got reraised allin (reraiser allin, not idiot) he calls with 7 4 off and wins. Anyway, I wait and wait and hope to get a hand before he loses or gets moved. And of course I get A A, he raises his usual, 666, another guy goes allin, of course I also push, idiot call (has us both covered), he turns over 3 5off, other guy has K K, I again have A A. Guess who wins, 4 6 on flop , 7 on turn. What a joke.