I am Fish-What did I do wrong?

[candy_licker]

** Game ID 767357481 starting - 2006-04-23 05:17:24
** Still Small Voice [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- yasaka sitting in seat 1 with $9.80
- slumpy sitting in seat 2 with $13.54
- vilaincanard sitting in seat 3 with $9.80
- Jige72 sitting in seat 4 with $52.85
- bkl555 sitting in seat 5 with $16.05
- jazza278 sitting in seat 6 with $18.60
- Candy_Licker sitting in seat 7 with $5.40 [Dealer]
- Magic_Hands sitting in seat 8 with $7.34
- Mr_Majestic sitting in seat 9 with $3.25
- TedMechanic sitting in seat 10 with $20.00

Magic_Hands posted the small blind - $0.10
Mr_Majestic posted the big blind - $0.20

** Dealing card to Candy_Licker: Ace of Spades, 10 of Spades
TedMechanic folded
yasaka called - $0.20
slumpy called - $0.20
vilaincanard called - $0.20
Jige72 folded
bkl555 folded
jazza278 called - $0.20
Candy_Licker called - $0.20
Magic_Hands called - $0.20
Mr_Majestic checked

** Dealing the flop: Queen of Spades, Jack of Diamonds, 7 of Spades
Magic_Hands checked
Mr_Majestic checked
yasaka checked
slumpy checked
vilaincanard bet - $1.00
jazza278 folded
Candy_Licker called - $1.00
Magic_Hands folded
Mr_Majestic went all-in - $3.25
yasaka folded
slumpy folded
vilaincanard raised - $5.50
Candy_Licker went all-in - $4.20
vilaincanard shows: Queen of Diamonds, 7 of Diamonds
Mr_Majestic shows: 7 of Clubs, Jack of Hearts

** Dealing the turn: 8 of Diamonds

** Dealing the river: Ace of Clubs
vilaincanard wins $10.85 from the main pot
vilaincanard wins $14.75 from side pot 1

End of game 767357481

Please critique me, I guess you should never go all in with a suited cared unless you have it on the flop, but how do you win the big pots? Waiting to hit it on the flop never pays, you get very little action if any.

[scrawnybob]

hi CandyLicker

Looking at the way the hand played out - I would have done a couple of things differently with your hand - and wouldn't have called the all-in on the flop - even from late position

If I've got the hands wrong - then apology from me but -

• preflop - you had Ace 10 suited on the button

up to you there were 4 flat calls (+ the small blind probably to come in behind you) - you dont want this with ANY hand you are going to play.

I would raise ANY hand I was going to play from late position (including a trash hand for bluff setup) - and I would raise Ace 10 suited from any position (even if it is just a 1x raise) - maybe not massively but I would want to get both increased value from my hand if it hits, cut out really random hands like 72off and importantly give the other players in earlier position a chance to give away the strength of their hand (ie. see if they re-raise and by how much).

If I had a decent starting hand like A10 suited in late position I would raise more like 3x blind - a) to show strength for future rounds b) to find out if AA, KK or any other medium / big pairs etc were trying to slow play.

That done you would probably have cut out Mr_Majestic with 7 of Clubs, Jack of Hearts

• the flop - comes down - Queen of Spades, Jack of Diamonds, 7 of Spades

majestic checks with - middle and bottom pair (but is in early and unsure what to do about the spade draw out there) - he checks (not sure that was a good move)

vilaincanard makes a very reasonable pot-ish size bet with Queen of Diamonds, 7 of Diamonds - he has a very strong hand - top and bottom pair and a long shot draw to the diamond flush (needing 2 more diamonds - but he is very much ahead anyway.

you have - an over card, no pair, gutshot straight draw (only a King will help you and if that King is a spade then you could be in alot better shape or in a hell of a fix) and you have a long shot flush draw needing two spades.

you call - IMHO you should have folded - what was a potentially good preflop hand just hasn't worked out - clearly at least one player wants the hand - you have nothing and are unlikely to improve - If your worst and best card comes down - the king spades you have a nut straight and the possible nut flush draw but are facing a very real possibility your dead in the water to a made flush

your gutshot straight draw gives you 3 outs + the king of spades which could either really make you or really break you - if you have been on an open ended straight draw then I would have called.

Majestic then (check) raises all-in from early - he has probably now got worried his lower two pair is in danger from the pot sized bet from vulain - putting him on a spade draw and wanting to take the pot down now

Vulain is happy now as he has the best hand and the best draws - so bets enough to get all your money in too - you call (second chance to have got out)

•*Turn 8 of Diamonds

vulain - still has top 2 pair - and one diamond to make flush

magestic - still has bottom 2 pair

• River Ace of Clubs

vulain's best hand at the flop sticks and no-one else makes their draws

Summary - vulain had the best hand and the best draws - you should have played your hand stronger pre-flop and then got out

a) when it didn't hit and your draws were problematic and only gutshot - facing pot sized bet

b) when you were facing a re-raise for all you money - you should definately folded and lived to fight another day / hand

hope thats a help - cheers scrawnybob

[candy_licker]

You have really helped me out, I just wanted to say thanks. From now on I am not going all in unless I have the nut flush on the flop.

[harry lime]

you've played this game before, haven't you rob.
this is great advice from rob, but bear in mind it's not always just what you're holding in front of you but (as rob points out), your position, your chip stack, the pot odds, your opponents style of play (strengths and weeknesses), etc, etc.
hopefully experience and advice will teach you all of this so it's really good that you're asking questions !

[scrawnybob]

hi Harry & candylicker

good points Harry - it's that old classic piece of poker advice - it depends

I have to confess to playing badly more than I'd like and sometimes well - consistency is something I'm hoping to get better at

It's also easy to look back at hands with 20/20 hindsight - in the heat of the game this isn't possible but definately worth trying to do

as well as patience being a very important component of winning (or not losing so much) poker

I think you need to practise very solid hand selection

but also constantly trying to put players on hands as the game unfolds - be constantly thinking what if / is he / why did he do that / did that help him / or me / or scare him / or me

scare cards are a big part of the game - I love playing a weaker hand as if I have exactly what they fear (the semi bluff) and even the all out bluff

the crucial thing to make a bluff work is to convince them you have what they really fear
if you have outs even better.

You can take down big pots with sometimes ridiculously low bets - solely because it triggers in their head "thats what I'd do if I was trying to kill him dead"

pot odds go out the window if you can really mess with someones head

all that said - if your cards really dont match up / you dont have any outs / you havent laid the seed of insecurity with a preflop raise / or a flat call when they expect a bluffing raise they will play you all the way.

You must always know where you are in a hand - even if you send out completely different signals to the other players

as Harry said - it's putting all the factors together - and having an idea when the opportunity out weighs the dangers and when you feel you can control the table

I stole a massive pot earlier with suited connectors on the button purely because I knew from the preflop raising that everyone was on big pairs and pictures -

I didnt even come close to actually making the hand I was on - but pre-flop I called some raises with a classic Doyle Bruson hand 78clubs - why ? because I knew if I made my hand either a straight or a weak flush (played hard) they would pay me off hansomely - if they slow play AA KK and let you in suddenly that guy in late position re-raising must have something worth playing - either way they're scared they 're beat when alsorts of things come up

On the other hand you need to see when someone really wants that hand - maybe they're bluffing (like I might) but if you haven't got enough to fight then give it up.

But then it depends lol - waiting for the nut hand and folding everything else won't be profitable - then you become a machine - and the only player who looses more money than a loose aggressive maniac is - yep a tight passive rock.

I hate to use motivational business speak but -

Think outside the box - but always know what and where the box is - (zen man yeah)

Anyway great to have you posting CandyLicker I think we've all been dying to get our teeth into some good poker discussions - it helps everyone look at the game and get better

cheers scrawnybob