Suffered another one last night, very depressing...

[PorkChopTD]

Seems to happen when I am really high in chips, which makes it that much harder! I have 162,000 chips (5th in chips/79 people left out of 3886[Absolute Poker Free roll]), the guy 3 seats to my left has 54,000, and the guy two seats to the right of me has (2nd in chips with 181,000 chips). I am dealt K K (My arch nemesis LOL) and the Blinds are 2000/4000. So... I raise it 16,000 the guy 3 seats to left calls, and the guy 2 seats to the right calls. Flop comes 5 3 3. I pot it, the guy 3 seats to the right calls and goes all in, the guy 2 seats to the left raises me all in. I'm thinking this guy to my right is either an idiot or slow playing pocket rockets. There is no way he has a 3 he wouldn't have called the pre flop raise with a 3, unless he is an idiot. Flush draw maybe, but if that is the case I have him beat right now. My odds look really really good. After a long pause I call. The guy to my left has J J, the guy to my right with the 182,000 has a #$%^ing(you get my point) 2 3 OFFSUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTH is that? You call a preflop raise with a 2 3 offsuit this late in the game! Give me a break and of course my K never comes!

[dondvir]

I know what you mean, but that's freerolls for you.

Did you get any money at this tourney on the 78th spot?

[PorkChopTD]

Only the top 63 get something, hurt really bad, because 3 out of the last 4 nights I have been sitting pretty like that. Then BOOM I'm out, and I'm losing with solid hands. I did win an Absolute Dream Package Final table free roll. The tournament is a $200 +16 buy in, I just pray there is no idiots in that one!!!

[Rose]

There are always idots in a freeroll Its disgusting
Look on the bright side because of the idots you reached a top stack in the tourney Better luck next time

[lucky7s]

Porkchop another day & you would have had that idiot just remember that

[TheSandmanRo]

Well, that's no badbeat, mate. first of all, when you moved allin, you were WAY behind. Second of all, you ruled out the posibility of a 3 too easily. 3rd of all, you made one of the greatest possible mistakes in tournament poker: going allin against someone better than you (especially if you were P5 and so close to the bubble).

He couldn't have had aces, because of the reason you've just said, but he could have had 55, and that would have been a very usual call for a high stack. From your coordinates, he either was in the BB, or he had already limped in, so he got 3 to 1 from the pot, a very good payoff for a pair of 5's, which you didn't even bother considering.

But let's say you are right and that was a very loose call. There you are, on the flop, with 146k in front of you and 50k in the pot, called by someone completely out of position and someone with a better position, both dangerous. Why bet the pot and commit? The shortstack(the guy to your left) was somewhat committed and would have put his money in anyway The big stack checked to you (I guess). Had you bet about 16-20k (4-5 blinds), you gave he shortstack the chance of moving allin and leave you to be the last to act. So, the scenario goes like this: hs check, you bet 21k and remain with 125k, ss moves allin with 38k and it's the time for the hs to act. If he moves allin, you are nowhere near committed and fold to his check-raise from the big blind. If he folds, you call. The trouble comes if he softcalls, but I doubt that, as he wouldn't want to let you chase a possible flush with some AdKd.

As a conslusion to a time-wasting long post, that wasn't a badbeat, because you were behind with only about 10% chances of winning (even less if we consider the possibility of a K-3 turn-river). You played well preflop and he didn't? yes. You overplayed on the flop? yes again.

[luzipher]

Originally Posted by TheSandmanRo

As a conslusion to a time-wasting long post, that wasn't a badbeat, because you were behind with only about 10% chances of winning (even less if we consider the possibility of a K-3 turn-river). You played well preflop and he didn't? yes. You overplayed on the flop? yes again.

I think is a badbeat. My reasons? He called 4BB raise with a garbage hand.
The badbeat occurs in flop, and not in turn or river.
I agree with TheSandmanRo that a 55 hand was a valid option if you consider his hugh stack and you didn't have that in mind.

[TheSandmanRo]

A badbeat doesn't occur preflop on the flop, on the turn, or on the river; it occurs AFTER the players have moved all in (or at least one of the two players), there's no more action taken and the best hand at THAT point loses. So, like I've said, when our friend here moved allin, he was WAAAAAY behind. It would have been a badbeat if he caught a K and won the hand.
Had he moved allin with KK preflop and got called by JJ and 23, that would heffinitely have been a badbeat.

[scrawnybob]

hi

yep first off loosing with KK or AA is always going to feel bad but ...

even with KK or AA you can and will loose sometimes - and most importantly if you havent moved all-in preflop (where you were an 80% favourite) you must must must re-assess your hand when you see the flop

defining a badbeat is about when you or the other player went all-in NOT what your original hands were

preflop was a 3 way raised pot but with all of you having big stacks the player with the 23 off was taking a cheap punt with massive implied odds -

ie. he knows you have a big hand and also knows he can afford to see the flop with a weak (very easy to fold hand if nothing hits, but also a hand that could really mess up a big hand if he hits)

I'm not saying his preflop play was great - but you must not assume players will not play bad hands calling a moderate raise preflop - they can and they will

this is part of poker - and being a tricky player does involve not playing ABC all the time

on the flop you were totally dominated (its tough but its the reality)

now at this point you have to think about possibilities and why a player would move all in on that flop

33 - A3 suited, ace 4 diamonds (on a draw), AA or 55

ok so 23 off is pretty random but you should have been thinking about the range of hands above - and this should have been enough for you to think twice

by the time it comes to you ... you've had the medium stack move all-in and the chip leader go all-in behind ...

so you now have two stong shows of aggression on an odd looking flop ... alarm bells should be ringing (this is a tournament your aim is to accumulate as many chips as possible as safely as possible - not get into big confrontations on difficult flops)

You must think to yourself ...

the big stack raised all-in for 1 of 2 reasons -

he wants to isolate the smaller stack and take him out or not without risk of having you call (and making his commitment bigger and a 3 way pot) ... therefore he has a big pair (but not aces or 3- or 55)

or the big stack re-raised allin because he wants to look like the above and he has a massive hand and he wants your chips too and has figured your going to call as you have enough of a hand to make that mistake ... therefore he has AA. 55, 33 or 3A

I guess in summary (it wasnt a bad beat - when they put your hand to the test you were very much behind) but most importantly you need to say to yourself is this the time to go out on a limb just because my hand preflop looked great but maybe now I'm behind ... and if I am its now going to cost me all my chips

If I'm facing a decision for all my chips ... I want to know that everyone has done what I hoped / expected ... not done everything to make me feel uneasy about the hand

I would have folded in this situation - the risk (of giving chips to the chip leader) far out weight the reward (its not you making the moves)

I dont generally like to be seeing the flop with AA KK QQ with more than one other player and I want to have control of the game

in this situation - you should have been worrying / thinking preflop about this situation and how it could play out ... I wouldnt like having the chip leader in a 3 way hand ... there is too much opportunity for them to put you to the test and uncomfortable

hope thats a help (not a very focussed post by me but hope there are some useful ideas and thoughts for you to work with and develop)

cheers scrawnybob

[jctm1988]

Well to to be honest this wasent a bad beat like the other player said, you where the one way behind on the flop .... dont need to further explain this , i have explained multiple times what a bad beat means .


But to make it short, were you commited to the pot ? No, do you have to call a all in ? from the big stack at this stage of the tournament ? nope .

You know what happend to me yesterday ? haha always about me , but this would show you some id .. :

I have 8000 chips in the dutch exclusive at full tilt
it's a massive stack since the tour has only been going on for 5 minutes,
im like 2nd in chips by that point, im suddenly moved to a other table with the guy thats chip leader ( 8900 ), i think good i will take his chip stack soon, and here is what happens :

Im dealt 10 10 , in mid position , the chip leader 3th to act raises 300, i smooth call so does the bb ,

Flop comes 9 10 J , YES , middle set , only there is a straight draw out there. ..
To my suprise the big stack moves alll inn ! , i hastitate 3 secs and call , so does the bb who has 1400 .. , i see the chip leaders hand , QQ , and sb has two pair .. , now i just hope the draws dont come right ? well im wrong , the turn card is a K , river a ACE, queens has a straight ace high , i got trips , two pair ... crazy is out aswell , big stack now has 17 k. and doesnt have to play a hand till the final table .


This even isnt a bad beat, since a : 8 - Q or K made his hand .
Bad beat is miracle card ...

Anywayz , good luck further on , bad beats usually come from the bad playing poker players unless they had something going .


JCTM1988