ring games and sngs

[j.lazy]

I have tried to play both ring games and SnG's to build my bankroll but I haven't been successful at either. I make the money in tournaments about 45% of the time. Tournaments are my strength but I can't get anywhere with the SnG's. I do well in ring games but I don't have the bankroll to sustain the down turns. I have tried the low limits ring games but i don't have the patience to build it with such low winnings because of the small money. What advice can anyone give me to build my bankroll. Tournaments require to much time and are to hard to consistantly build a bankroll unles you win a big one.

[LyndaNova]

Hi J.!

What poker site are you referencing?

Trying to build a bankroll from scratch is not an easy task.

Taking the winnings from the MTTs and then playing SNGs and/or cash tables are pretty much the only options if you don't have time to constantly play in the 5+ hour MTTs that you seem to do pretty well at.

If you play at cash tables, make it a habit to leave while you are up. Check out the lobby and find another cash table to play at where they are seeing a good percentage of cards. Hit and runs are the way to go with cash tables IMO.

Good Luck!

[spowers454]

I like sng's for building br's. Odds are better to win money. Ring games can go bad real quick but the can and have gone very right very fast as long as you know when to walk away from it. when you double-triple what you brought to the table is my limit after that I always seem to top out so to say and at best just stay there but never seem to make much more than triple my bring in. sng's stick to 10% or less than your total br when ever you can.play smart and safe and it will grow little by little.

[khicks26]

i have heard that the Double-Up sit & gos are a good way to build your BR.
top 5 out of 10 double their money. i don't play them, but i guess the play is loose.
so if you play tight at the start and wait for a good hand its not hard to double up.
even if it gets to push/fold mode, your chances are still good to make the money.

[19RK64]

I have tried to play both ring games and SnG's to build my bankroll but I haven't been successful at either. I make the money in tournaments about 45% of the time. Tournaments are my strength but I can't get anywhere with the SnG's. I do well in ring games but I don't have the bankroll to sustain the down turns. I have tried the low limits ring games but i don't have the patience to build it with such low winnings because of the small money. What advice can anyone give me to build my bankroll. Tournaments require to much time and are to hard to consistantly build a bankroll unles you win a big one.

Im not a winning player if you add all my site together Im loosing, but trully hope I can change that around this year,
I use to focus on sng's, but the play is getting tuffer and looser at most sites I play, so if Im playing sng tourney to profit instead of waking up, I try to keep the profit margin above 10x's my investment, making more chances for me to prove Im winning or lossing..

But you speak about small money, theirs a post in your thread that someone recomends "DUBBLE-UP Tournaments" you can profit at these, they are very borring to me an any more are getting harder to place cause players are holding for nuts only .thus prodicing a all-in fest at the end and the lucky 5 wins, here's a bit of Math on them If you havent tryed them.

For players that never tryed them:
you must win 54 out of 100 games(Top five) to break totally even!, (55 out of 100 in $1.10)
after tourney fee's

The problem Im running into is when I fill the screen up I don't get to play the player as much an count on my cards more and it tends to cost in them OVERALL speaking, cause Im not focused on one table, in these games value betting at the wrong players will cost you quit a bit in the long run. bassically if you play verry tight and don't call a allin with big pairsJJ QQ and mid pairs you won't have a bunch of chip but you will gain a bankroll, Im not sayin you won't see some you wished you would of called but when you do have AA KK in these they seemed to get cracked a bit more say> you will lose 40% of your power hands and the profit margin is only dubble-up,but don't forget about the tourney fee, it adds up! you can't afford to lose 4 out of 10 .. so stay tight!, play late and enjoy it cause players will get better.I not saying it can't be done cause it can thought I add some math here so no-one will wonder


theses are not stats these are just what it take to break even thats all!

BASED AT 100 sessions(tourneys)

winner recieves $2.00
buy-in: $1. +.10
100 games cost: $1.10 x 100= $110.00
total earnings: $2.00 x 100 = $200.00
tourney fee: .10 x 100 = $10.00
total net profit: $200.-$10. = $90.00

To break even at
a 100 games: $2.00 x 55 games = $110.00



PER 100 tourneys:
winner recieves $10.00
buy-in: $5.40
100 games cost: $540.00
total earnings: $1000.00
tourney fee: $40.00
total net profit: $460.00


To break even at
a 100 games: $10. x 54 games = $540.00





PER 100 tourneys:
winner recieves $20.00
buy-in: $10.80
100 games cost: $1080.00
total earnings: $2000.00
tourney fee: $80.00
total net profit: $920.00

To break even at
a 100 games: $20.00 x 54 games = $1080.00



PER 100 tourneys:
winner recieves $50.00
buy-in: $25.00 + $2.00
100 games cost: $2700.00
total earnings: $5000.00
tourney fee: $200.00
total net profit: $2100.00


To break even at
a 100 games: $50.00 x 54 games = $2700.00
IM PRETTY MUCH DONE WITH THESE, I feel in long run it really tuff to come out ahead per hours of play, not that you cant win 54 games out of 100 but you must win lots more at % to profit per time spent, unless I try a higher buyin, you take to many hit and an suck outs, and with the profit margin only being a dubble up, it catches up with out exception. I can't win 100 % of all games playing 100s of these games for months on ?, that would be a dream, great players are lucky to be at 80 % wins in these at 100 games, so if a player is playing these at $1.10 that just took the net winnings down to $40. per 100 games a set. thats a bit of time 100 tourneys
Really all Im saying here is in the long run and time invested in these dubble ups they just aint worth it, to me at least, I believe I like a bigger field thus allowing the chance for bigger winning, and many more shot for it before proving it a loss.
But they are a good way to get sum extra funds when needed.

[sparkyrose]

I believe if you are good at the mtt you should stick with them and hopefully you can cash out a big one then you can go to the ring games to build it even further just my 2 cents.

[gnk2727]

I dont know, but if ur cashing 45% of the MTT's you play thats pretty darned good. Its really hard to ITM in MTT like that so I think ur figures might be skewed a little bit....

[scrawnybob]

hi

I think 19RK64's figures are fir his SNG ROI and not MTT

even so 45% over the long term is generally pretty high - alot of the "pro" SNG players would reckon on a much lower ROI over the long term from what I've heard

cheers scrawnybob

[atnmsdaddy]

i like sng's for building the bank roll $1 9 person is what i started out with and have worked my way up if tourny's are your strong point try a 90 persong sng it will similar to a tourny

steven

[19RK64]

hi

I think 19RK64's figures are fir his SNG ROI and not MTT

even so 45% over the long term is generally pretty high - alot of the "pro" SNG players would reckon on a much lower ROI over the long term from what I've heard

cheers scrawnybob

You are correct, I was talking about "Single Table dubble-ups tournaments"
SINGLE TABLE, TOP 5 place ITM

theirs a post in this thread that someone recomends "DUBBLE-UP Tournaments",
I was just breaking them down!

the MAth is correct, if theirs anyone that don't understand please read again,then just ask your question/s... I'll be glad to try to answer, I've tryed to type the best I can, my bad if it hard to make sence of..

But I put no stats of my player in this thread, just broke it down to show what you are up against


Personally I preffer any game that I can make 10x investment, thus giving more room for outcome, and mistakes

when It come to MTT's I have many more chances at makeing a profit, before showing a over all loss, in the long run.

example:
$2,000 Guarenteed
Buyin$1.10
First pays: different with field size, Lets say: $450.00
all I have to do is win this once out of 409 to break even
hopefully I will be a winning player by the end of the year, with ALL POKER accounts added together, at this time Im not!.


j.lazy

If I was trying to build a bankroll, I would get a start on sngs, and move directly to MTT's, serch for quality games, garenteed tournaments, small field, added money with placement not to tight so it easier to persue..

As your post shows, you can allways count on SNG's for bankroll repair.