How to avoid cash games?

[pirates831]

This is a dead serious post. I've had a good run lately in tourneys, but it seems whenever I play cash games, I blow my roll.

I'd really like to only play cash games very rarely, but I keep getting sucked in. Addicted is probably the right word.

I wish I could find a site that was all tournaments. I wish that site was Carbon.

[ND1991]

If I were to guess, I would say you are playing well in tournaments because you understand the goal, have had success, play within your bankroll, and play with confidence.

In cash games, every hand is a mini-tournament. Sure there is a meta-game, and you need to observe your opponents, but you deal with a whole new series of things you do not have in a tournament. Someone using short stack strategy, the hit and run, the big-time gamblers, etc. You see them to varying degrees in tournaments, but they impact the bankroll much less in tournaments, you r maximum loss is set when you buy-in.

I believe I read somewhere that you should never have more than 5% of you bankroll on the table in a cash game, that you should buy in for 50 BBs, and you should target winning one big bet an hour. I will be the first to admit, if I sit down and do the math on this -- 500 bankroll, 5% is 25 dollars, 50 BBs means you are probably playing a $0.25/$0.50 game. One big bet an hour would be $1 (plus previous money in the pot).

Of course I am sure these numbers are not 100% accurate, but they definitely illustrate the grind that real cash games can be.

And also remember, when you knock someone out in a tournament they are gone and the total chips at the table or in the tournament remain constant. In a cash games, they leave someone else sits down, and the total chips increase.

If you are playing an idenitcal strategy in tournaments and cash and one is working, then good chance is the other is not.

If you do not like them, then do not play them. However, if you do like them but are just not doing well, consider lowering the stakes, and thinking of a new approach, and opportunity to improve another area of your game.

[Poolcue]

Simple answer.Don't play cash.

[scrawnybob]

hi

you shouldnt be able to blow your bankroll playing cash games (or tournaments)

I can understand what your getting at - you feel you blow your bankroll in cash games after doing well in tournaments BUT I think rather than having to avoid cash games you must organise your bankroll to be able to play cash games properly

that means proper bankroll management

for cash games thats min 20x the single max buy-in

for Single table SNG's min 20x the buy-in

for MTTS I would suggest nearer 40x the buy-in

now simply if you playing in low stake cash games where say the max single buy-in is $10 that means your bankroll should be an absolute miniumum of $200

there are lower stakes cash games (more of a crap shoot) - but if you havent got a $200 bankroll then you are very very likely to go busto with less roll

if you've got a roll built up of say $50 then you cant expect with total certainty to survive the ups and downs with only 5x buy-in

and this is my point about bankroll - if your tournament play is at the $1-$2 SNG and MTT level then jumping into a low stakes cash game (even a $10 max buy-in) is a massive jump up and a massive stretch of a $50 bankroll ... whereas playing in $1-$2 SNG's with $50 isnt

hope thats a help - let us know if this is a bankroll size issue because even a total meltdown tilt shouldnt get through 5x max buy-ins and a single session shouldnt mean going busto

if its an issue of tilting, or finding your style of play doesnt suit rings games and really avoiding is the aim and not bankroll management then you might just want to multitable some MTT's or SNG's

cheers scrawnybob

[pakino]

Play cash for 20% of your winnings in tourneys. Playing cash is important and you should try to learn it.

[pirates831]

Originally Posted by pakino

Play cash for 20% of your winnings in tourneys. Playing cash is important and you should try to learn it.

not a bad idea. i used to be quite good at cash games and won a pretty decent amount in 06 and 07.

i went to AC thursday night to play a live tournament and some live cash games as well.

here's how bad i run:

minimum buy-in at $1/$2 NL is $60, so I decide to buyin short. get AQ on the button, its folded to me, raise to $10. both blinds call. Flop is K 7 4. I bet and take it down.

after 2 hours of sitting and folding, i'm down to $34. i pick up AA in one of the blinds. MP raises to $12 ... he has raised at lesat 40 percent of the hands. 2 callers. I've been waiting for just this situation. i push. all 3 call. pot is over $120.

flop is QJ4. figure someone flopped a set, right? no. check, check, bet of $40. fold, fold. turns over Q8o. River - 8. Scoops the pot.

$34 preflop with Q8o. Wow.

[pakino]

Nice hand

[pirates831]

It just continues. So I decide to take the above advice and sit down at a .02/.04 table with $2. i'm up, I'm down, I'm about even when I pick up 2 queens. Guy limps in and I raise pot. Flop comes 8 5 4, rainbow. He checks and I bet the pot. He pushes all-in. After a long thought process. I go in the tank. Is he bluffing? Did he flop a set or the straight? I think about folding and even showing, to let him know i can be bluffed. But that would have left me down at about $1.25 so I decided i was way ahead rather than way behind. I called. I put him on something like A5. He hit the pair and figured I was c-betting.

He showed A8.

So we're all-in and the dreaded turn comes A.

Back to the tournaments for a while.

[scrawnybob]

hi

tough beat but afaiks from your change of stakes - you can now afford to get beat for $2 and be able to go back to the tournament games without going busto ;-)

that IMHO IS a massive improvement in you game and your bankroll management

with discipline you can now dip into cash games at this level when you feel like it without wrecking you bankroll and without putting a stop to you tournament play

although the low stakes games are "donktastic" DONT make the mistake of trying to play at the low middle stakes because it seems less of a donk fest ... the micro games will become affordably beatable rather than 2 stakes up becoming unaffordably risky and no more profitable over a longer term

cheers scrawnybob

[Arjonius]

Self-discipline is the key. Guidelines as to what level you can play with what size of bankroll can only help if you follow them. And all the time. Just one slip has loss of many a roll.

Also, you might consider adjusting the number of buyins depending how volatile your game and results are. 20X is fine for many players, but those whose rolls go up and down like yoyos might be better served to use 30x or even more.