Short Stack Strategy

[Poker Orifice]

in poker there is never just one way to win, you can be successful shortstacking but if you are very good you can look at it as not winning as much as you should be. having a big stack has a big advantages, on the flip side, if you are shortstacked and have a hand there is a better chance of being looked up when you raise big because others might not respect your stack size.

Phil, do you know what SSS is? SS's are open-raising with hands that they WANT to get it allin with, they WANT to get looked up.. (at least good ones do).
SSS has some fairly structured systematic ways in which to play certain hands from certain position that is shown to be +EV. It is also devised to be a tough to exploit style (if they're a good SS'r). There are TONS of articles written on it and some players who've played 100's of thousands of hands using SSS. (for more info. on it, you can search out Ed Miller's stuff).

[Poker Orifice]

P.S. There are also even Shortstacking (cash game SSS) calculators out there (not software, and not an odds or ICM calc, & not a Shortstack tourney shoving chart... but an actual shorstacking calc.).

[Limey777]

Phil, do you know what SSS is? SS's are open-raising with hands that they WANT to get it allin with, they WANT to get looked up.. (at least good ones do).

Ok, I can kind of agree with that, especially on higher level hold 'em but if we drop down to the lower level omaha then I'm seeing more and more SS draw betters and this is where my frustration lies. They'll push after the flop with open ended straight draw (LAG) you can be sitting there with top set, fl draw etc.... Immediatley they have taken control of the board. You can call with a flush draw and run the risk of a set coming over the top behind you. You can re-raise with trips and run everybody else out of the hand. You can't bluff because you know SS is calling no matter what.
So SS gets his chips in and you see what he raised with, open ended. Did he want a caller? I don't think so but by using this strategy he knows the turn and river are free (just the same as abusing disconnect protection)

On top of that, if you're a believer of collusion (which I am) picture this (and I've seen it happen). Short stack raises all in after the flop, 2 callers and then his buddy to his right who checked to the the short stack comes over the top with the nuts. I'm referring to my mic'd up buddies and they worked a table like this for well over an hour. Yes, I could of reported it but it was a valuable lesson learned and now I look out for it. You can't prove it, They are just playing short stack LAG should anybody ask.

So, my statement would be, too many short stackers are using the strategy like disconnect protect, and it's a valuable tool used for collusion.

[illphillllllll]

Phil, do you know what SSS is? SS's are open-raising with hands that they WANT to get it allin with, they WANT to get looked up.. (at least good ones do).
SSS has some fairly structured systematic ways in which to play certain hands from certain position that is shown to be +EV. It is also devised to be a tough to exploit style (if they're a good SS'r). There are TONS of articles written on it and some players who've played 100's of thousands of hands using SSS. (for more info. on it, you can search out Ed Miller's stuff).

if you read what i wrote i said you can get looked up, meaning if you have a good hand there is a great chance to double with it. yes i understand what it means i think you read my response wrong.

[Poker Orifice]

if you read what i wrote i said you can get looked up, meaning if you have a good hand there is a great chance to double with it. yes i understand what it means i think you read my response wrong.

I guess I did misinterpret ya.... from reading your response I thought you were referring to weak/bad players who buy in 'small' (ie. 40bb's, the absolute worst sized stack to buyin with).. and not the actually SS'rs who buyin for 20bb's & then try to play an unexploitable style (<< some actually do quite well at it, but more about playing volume & clearing bonuses I think, as you can multi-table a huge amount of tables while playing SSS if you've actually got your system down pat). They still only seem to have max. winrates of 1-2BB/100 but with rakeback & bonuses I guess it works for them.

I spent some time researching SSS, partially with the thought of considering giving it a go for awhile BUT also to help find ways in which to play vs. the SSS, ways in which to try to negate their unexploitable advantage (& read a bunch of stuff on that also). Conclusion..... meh... I'll take a big passola on tryin' out the SSS. Just isn't really all that appealing to me.

Interesting post from you here again Limey. I don't play Omaha so I wouldn't have a clue as to how to play vs. SS'rs in those games (have played it a bit but very, very rarely & usually only in tournament-style format). Thanks for giving the headsup on potentially colluding players with one being on the shortstack.