Poker stats and information

[Limey777]

Whilst surfing the net and googling my username to see if I had achieved some sort of notoriety amongst my fellow grinders on Pokerstars I happened upon a website full of interesting information. I won’t post the link, not sure how Bob feels about that sort of thing.

Anyway on this site it tells you how much you’ve won, how many hands played, which is handy when comparing yourself to others.
Then we get to RakePaid and RakeBack, okay well Pokerstars doesn’t offer RakeBack so I’m guessing this information is not so handy right?
Lets skip along to "Hot or Not", seems to fluctuate pretty dramatically self-explanatory doesn’t seem useful to me, could be wrong, any opinions?
Next Botscore and Tiltscore, well my Botscore is 31 ands the old Tiltometer is at 28. Neither seem to move much, whilst they don’t seem like bad numbers there is no indication of what a good score is therefore this information would appear to be kind of irrelevant to me. Can anybody shed some light please?
Next I’ll go to PTR. My PTR is 61 (yay me!) does that mean I’m the next Tom "Durrrr" Dwan? Upon further review it would appear not, seems to be a pretty average score but once again I have no idea what this figure means or how it is calculated.
Now my favourite, BB/100. Researched this as best I could, think it has something to do with big bets won per 100 hands but I’m a dullard so to be honest I don’t understand the calculation. This does seem like a useful stat and from what I have found the higher you move in limits the lower your BB/100 will be. Which is ok, it’s supposed to be that way which is a good thing for me as I go from 18.6 to 0.4 on the next level up. I know, I know, I’m working on the 0.4 please don’t ridicule me, my TiltScore will fly up

So with all this information in front of me I think it’s fair to conclude that I’m not utilizing it to it’s fullest extent as I don’t really have a clue what it all means, any help would be greatly appreciated.

I would also like your opinions on these tracking sites. Way back when I was an online gamer and some people used secondary programs such as bots and a program that allowed them to play 2 characters from the same account at one time, EQWin I believe was the name of that one. Sony would tell us that using these programs caused the lag on the servers which led to constant LD’s (disconnects) sound familiar? So, it would seem to make sense to me that these tracking sites/programs would contribute to the same thing happening on Poker sites although I could be wrong and quite often am. What do you think?

[scrawnybob]

hi

yep - BTW from your description I know the exact site you mean

and those data mining sites are becoming increasingly unpopular (and obviously also popular)

but most importantly theyre use is BANNED on alot of sites

pokerstars has a list of banned sites - and they are on it

fulltilt has it I think on their NOT to be used while playing Fulltilt. Although I think they say you can use it whilst not playing for general reference

there are a few other well known ones that are also in grey area

personally I initially thought these sites were pretty cool as you could look up your own stats and those of other foes (while NOT playing) just for reference with hindsight etc

however alot of the sites are a bit inaccurate (either because they dont go back far enough or because they dont track all games or all tournaments etc)

for example the Fulltilt stats only go back to start of 2008

So my stats are terrible on that site showing only 2 yrs but missing pre 2008 data from 2004 onwards = I'd have been net profitable player on FT and stats would have looked ok)

thankfully they dont all cover all sites - so at least profits on some arent seen / while also some terrible stats on others are (bugger) - but I'm not sure that people are that comfortable to have their stats on view good or bad

most importantly on thinking about it - most people WONT have agreed to having their info easily accessible ... and for this reason the poker rooms dont like it either

Ive heard issues of players getting their stats removed from their database - and clearly that should be a right of players ... the problem being the data mining in the first place is a grey area

as there must be some data protection issues and these sites are effectively data mining - which is also prohibited on most sites as its gainin unfair advantage from games the people havent infact played in ... you can buy the HH's from some of these sites

I know some sites are now affiliating with them to get commissions BUT IMHO its not something I feel comfortable with and also I'm not sure if these sites might not disapear as quickly as they grew

lets remember the poker rooms themselves will act in the best interests of the majority of its customers - NOT to benefit a relative minority trying to gain what is really an unfair edge on the competition

Hence the fact that most have in one way or another said they dont allow use of these sites or have added them to their BANNED lists

As Ive said before ultimately skilled & profitable players profit from the fish majority / recreational players ... too many tools IMHO will kill off the fish and the sharks will only be left with themselves

cheers scrawnybob

[villaridge]

well, I'm drunk, so gottta chime in.

Ok, lets look at it this way.....we are all players, and if u look at ANY other sport, player stats are listed. If I wanna go find who is hot at cricket, chess, football, backgammon, softball, volleyball, soccer, how many hot dogs u can eat, marathons, hockey, well, u get the idea, the STATS of players are public knowledge.

So why should Poker be different?????????

[Limey777]

The plot thickens.
I had no idea this website/service was banned. I went to Pokerstars, found the site and

Q: What steps are you going to take to prevent players from using prohibited tools and services? We are going to look to see if any of those tools or services is running on a player's computer.
A: If we find one of the prohibited tools or services, we will alert the player that they are running a prohibited tools or service and tell them what it is. We will ask that they stop running the tool or service immediately. If they comply, fine. If not, then we will prevent the PokerStars client from running on their computer.

You mean they are tracking my Internet history!! Hope they like Jenna Jameson nudie pics.

I mainly go there to see if my own stats have changed but I do use the site to check for new account poker bombs. I avoid these players like the plague because they always seem to run like God’s and then I guess when the luck runs out they just up and disappear or maybe they open a new account and do it again, who knows?

They’ve been tracking me since early Oct of last year, I have no idea how, why, where. To be on the safe side I have always run spyware detectors/Viruscans and never found anything.

I kind of share your point of view villaridge. At lower stakes it just seems like a bit of fun.
At higher stakes however I would NOT want my stats and especially winnings posted anywhere for obvious reasons.

[villaridge]

so, agree more. Like the Cowboys(inset ur sports team name here) are in playoff contention. what, the contender doesnt have access to the stats of the opposing team? Or take an individual sport like golf, u done good, now u are against tiger woods in the standings?

EVERY sport, EVERY game has rankings....it begs the question, why is poker different?

Poker rooms say because it is an "unfair advantage". what? lol, yeah, try that line of reasoning with ANY other sport and u will be laughed right out of the room

Ok, name me one other sport that the biggies(sites) in the sport actually restrict info on player stats and I will give u $5

[brickmason13]

Only place i want my stats banned is from the I R S !!! But they know everything GEEZ

[Limey777]

Only place i want my stats banned is from the I R S !!! But they know everything GEEZ

And Brickmason13 hits the nail on the head. An example would be my buddy who won 14k in a tourny and then transferred funds to several local players which would equal a cash transaction.

Stats are fun and interesting but I’m willing to bet that if Tiger Wood’s could keep last years earnings private he would, especially from his soon to be ex-wife.

[illphillllllll]

i like looking up my own stats to see if i'm improving but never look up any of my opponents. the best use of these sites is to look up a guy who claims to be great then seeing he is just another donk, nothing like posting a braggers stats on the forum to shut him up.

[spowers454]

I know what site you are talking about and I use it very often. From my understanding they just keep track of hands played and it isn't one of those sites that works with the sites that puts stats on every player. You can just search players names to see hands played and figure out tendencies of the player based on hands they have played. I love it and when I am at tilt I always search player at my table. Who is weak who is on a hot streak and such. Plus I search myself more than anyone to see how I am doing. I do wish it had more sites to search from but take what I can. I know there are some programs that pretty much tell you what they are doing in certain hands but this one you have to make your own reads and I don't think this is one of those banned sites, I may be wrong but don't see why it would be. Unless the there are hundreds and hundreds of people watching about ever hand played on every table played on all the sites you can search then the site it's self must let them have access to track them.

Last time I played I tilted pretty nicely and my tilt score shot up 30 points, My bot score has always been very low, at 17 now and that is because I have a insanely good memory when it comes to poker hands so I remember how I played a similar hand to the one I am holding and always do something completely different. The higher the bot score the more you standardize your play, or so to say. Play aces like ... everytime so on so forth. When I see someone with a high bot score I know they tend to be the ABC poker players and can use that to play against them. Lower bot scores can range from the maniac aggressive to to the people that just keep changing their games up. High tilt scores can be taken advantage of to. When you see someone with a high tilt score take a bad beat they tend to do some crazy chasing or pushing shortly after, cash in on that. now this isn't an exact science by any means but just my take on stats. Hot or not and ptr stats I don't pay to much attn to because they change based on when the last time they played was and I haven't been able to figure out how much taking a little time off changes these so I just don't put to much stock in them, well not just because they are low but if high I pay attn to them. Good luck.

[Poker Orifice]

PTR score fluctuates quite often (ie. Isildur1 was actually a '100' for a couple weeks, during the same time Dwan's PTR score dropped down quite a bit, even though he'd played tons of hands prior (in other words.... it seems to be based on one's more recent play).
BB/100... this is the figure that one keeps track of money being won. Quite often an indicator over a decent sample size of whether or not one is ready to move up in levels. (fwiw, I believe running with 2-3BB/100 at $100NL is considered 'good').
18BB/100??? WOW... what sample size are we looking at here? (seems HUGE!).
I think it's pretty difficult to maintain a decent BB/100 at micro stakes on Fulltilt (it's rare you see any of the players above +1or2BB/100 and the large majority in the 'minus'.... this is including micro grinders with 1 & 200K plus hands at 5 & 10NL).
Many players rely on rakeback (or FPPs) to make money from playng the low limit cash tables.