Except for River Bet, Is my thinking sound

[Dan Abnormal]

Was requested to start new thread when I have a new hand to look at

Was going to post some other hands but they all point to a major hole in my play. Playing totally out of position and way too much limping

This hand is the same story but it turns out quite interesting once I drew it out. I wasnt really ready to play this morning so the wheels feel off on this hand and I was out, but I was already pot commited at the turn and should of pushed all in there I think. I was big blind and had to play.


Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 300 - 2010-05-08 10:36:11 (ET)
Table: 170 (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer
Seat 1 - (1,450 in chips)
Seat 2 - (3,453 in chips)
Seat 3 - (8,086 in chips)
Seat 4 - (4,785 in chips)
Seat 5 - (6,070 in chips)
Seat 6 - HERO(5,550 in chips)
Seat 7 - (56,336 in chips)
Seat 8 - (11,415 in chips)
Seat 9 - (15,873 in chips)
1- Ante 25
2- Ante 25
3- Ante 25
4- Ante 25
5- Ante 25
HERO- Ante 25
7- Ante 25
8- Ante 25
9- Ante 25
10- Posts small blind 150
HERO- Posts big blind 300
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO[Qs 10c]
7- Calls 300
8- Calls 300
9- Calls 300
(NOTICE THE TREND EVERYONE IS LATER POSITION ON ME)
HERO- Checks
*** FLOP *** [6c 9d 7s]
HERO- Checks
7- Checks
8- Bets 300
9- Calls 300
HHERO- Calls 300
7- Folds
*** TURN *** [6c 9d 7s] [Js]
HERO- Bets 2,475
8- Folds
9- Calls 2,475
*** RIVER *** [6c 9d 7s Js] [9c]
HERO- All-In 2,450
9- Calls 2,450
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HERO- Shows [Qs 10c] (One pair, nines)
9- Shows [8c 8h] (Two Pair, nines and eights)
9Collects 12,325 from main pot


SO many different outs for me that once the River came it fired my mind, I couldnt think and just push all in and THAT WAS STUPID but I already commited over 1/2 my stack.

I should pushed all in on the turn where is I had 8 outs on 2 different straights
+ a pretty high kicker if the pair of 9's was what we both had (RIVER 9 coming).

Ok was the cheapleader #9 Was he pushing me around calling the 2.4K bet with a pair of 8's (of course 2 of my outs) and he had outs on a straight too. If I had pushed all in on the turn, I still think he would of chased and that was 1/3 of his stack.

ANd of course, my play, anything Im over looking. This is probably why I get my assed kicked in ring games, I must be getting eaten up going out of position all the time because (since I was at this table most of the tourny) the 2 chip leaders to my left where just beating me up and taking my lunch money everytime I bet. ALso besides the river, is there any clues here I should of smelled that I was already beat cause I thinkI had enough reasons to stay in the hand until the river

ALso in essence since the table was cut to seats 6 7 and 9. Player 9 effectively became the dealer once everyone folded and I was there once again betting OOP

[LombardiStix]

Don't push on a bluff unless you are really sure villain will fold. You push on the river looked like exactly what happened... looks like you missed your draw. You really have no reason to waste chips on a call on the flop either. You're gambling not playing the odds and I would suggest you dump the "rush of a big bluff" for the solid play which gets you paid more often. GL

Stix

[Dan Abnormal]

OK so you're saying I should of folded this hand when seat 8 raised on the flop. I only needed an 8 for a straight at this point, so I would fold on the flop because Im early position here and would I stay in the hand if I was late position or would I fold regardless. Is it bad habits to chase straights and flushes in the early postion

If I did limp bet on the flop with 2 different straight possibilites, should I pushed all in on the turn or was this just not the hand to go with.

I do agree and admitted, The river bet was beyond stupid.

I dont want to start a new thread for this but is this a bad habit to get into. I was early position, had AKo and that is one of the hands they say play. For what its worth I went back to strick rules of position EARLY =Q-A (any combo) Middle 9-A (any combo) LAte 5-A (higher combos) is this pretty much correct, ANyways, I tried to focus on position more than anything, ended up in this shootout


- $1,000 Bankroll Freeroll Satellite T8501793 -- Table 2 -- $0/$25/$50 NL Hold'em -- 2010/05/08 - 17:10:28
6Don***5: posts small blind 25
HERO: posts big blind 50
Dealt to HERO[Ah,Kc]
Heck***9: folds
AHME***10: calls 50
I Ge***1: folds
lati***2: folds
Gard***3: folds
deaa***4: folds
6Don***5: is all in 1170.0000
HERO: is all in 1375.0000
AHME***10: calls 1,375
6Don***5: shows [Th Qh]
HERO: shows [Ah Kc]
AHME***10: shows [Jh Jd]
*** FLOP *** [4c,3c,6h]
*** TURN *** [7d]
*** RIVER *** [8d]
***SHOW DOWN***
AHME***10: wins 460 with Pair of Jacks
***SHOW DOWN***
AHME***10: wins 3,585 with Pair of Jacks


late position was 4x my stack, I really didnt want this to be an all in deal but the guy in the position before me, pushed all in. So like Logan was saying, the guy betting before was right to push all in if he was gonna bet to fold me and the other player. WE both went all in. So the early position guy played right , the late position guy played right, but the important thing DID I PLAY RIGHT

Just want to make sure my thinking is right here. If I was early here I would push in all or 1/2 stack (id prefer 1/2 but is that limping and go all in) by doing this (IN EARLY POS) I want to make everyone fold or pay high to see flop and since anything I would play here is prmium I should push all in. Middle position with this hand (WHAT WOULD BE BEST TO DO) try to see more cards on the cheap or HIT IT AGGRESSIVELY and late position, I would bet lite and try to attract other customers and let the flop dictate how high I want the pot. It seems so simple but DAMN its hard as hell.

[Logan]

About previews hand

I only needed an 8 for a straight at this point, so I would fold on the flop because Im early position here and would I stay in the hand if I was late position or would I fold regardless. Is it bad habits to chase straights and flushes in the early postion

Is bad habit chase in any position with only 4 outs, you only have 16% chances of hit with 2 cards left, so no point to chase, but you got 2 over cards wich is good.

Don´t understand your bet also, you can bluff one player but not 2, you bet big in turn and river give you nothing, and after he pay you the big bet still think he will not pay river?.

In turn you have a J and now 8 outs for str8 but only 1 card left wich mean still have 16% to make it, 1 in 10 is not worth it, but if you want to see the next card you put the prize if are early. If every one limp pre and every one call the min in flop then go and bet only min again or 2 times (300 again or 600) no reason to bet the 2000, if some one raise then fold and dont get in trouble, if he only pay you then you can see the next card for cheap, if going to chase, chase cheap or leave it, but again don´t have the odds to call, your hand is nothing at this point and if you don´t hit at least dont spend all chips.

[Logan]

About 2nd hand

No, it was not right from player5 to push even in early position, blinds are still in 50, he have still 20bb, and other player also is not good paying a allin with JJ with 2 players already in and blinds in 50.

But important thing is that this was a freeroll and most players going to pay with anything, you can´t play sophisticated in freerolls.

If was later in the game probably i pay with A-K or push with A-K, or if my stack cover the allin and still will have chips left but calling with A-K early probably only if want to 2ble up or go early.

Ak only going to win 65% of the times versus 1 player wich means going to lose 3-4 times in 10 games, i don´t want to be out 4 times of 10 if can avoid. and versus 2 other players go down to 47% you only going to win half of times wich is a coin flip, again is ok if is a freeroll and want to 2bleup or 3ple up early but need to know that you can be out frecuently.

[Dan Abnormal]

Im doing more watching then playing it seems right now, Whos chip leader, my position, etc etc etc. Dunno if this was wise but I think it fell under hands to play in the late position. Maybe with the push from the earlier player, I should of folded but I wanted to play from the power position even though it failed and I dont know if I made the right call here

Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 40 - 2010-05-08 18:41:21 (ET)
Table: 97 (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 1 - (2,020 in chips)
Seat 2 - (3,850 in chips)
Seat 3 - (1,180 in chips)
Seat 4 - (1,740 in chips)
Seat 5 - HERO (1,080 in chips)
Seat 6 - (455 in chips)
Seat 7 - (1,390 in chips)
Seat 8 - (1,625 in chips)
Seat 9 - (5,070 in chips)
TRAPPER - Posts small blind 20
TALISAC420 - Posts big blind 40
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [8c 8s]
8- Calls 40
9- Calls 40
1- Calls 40
2- Calls 40
3- Calls 40

HERO- Raises 340 to 340


8- Calls 300
9- Folds
1- Calls 300
2- Calls 300
3- Calls 300
*** FLOP *** [6d 3c 4s]
8- Checks
1- Checks
2- Checks
3- All-In 840
HERO- All-In 740
8- Folds
1- Calls 840
2- Folds
*** TURN *** [6d 3c 4s] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [6d 3c 4s Jd] [9d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
1- Shows [Kh Kc] (One pair, kings)
3- Shows [Kd 6h] (One pair, sixes)
HERO- Shows [8c 8s] (One pair, eights)
1 Collects 200 from side pot-1
1 Collects 4,020 from main pot

[Dan Abnormal]

Thank you again Logan,


So the first hand (chasing the 8) was a dead duck and I should of got out. Is chasing a flush ok to do or just as costly. (I know I guess if it hits or not)

The second hand - AKo, I just got sucked into bad play by others and left my destiny to a coin flip very early, Avoid this unless its just heads up or on the cheap
or maybe just avoid until Im in position.

[sos_egg_n]

1 point - i have high kicker


so assuming the guy has no j no 9 no 7 no 6 no ace high no king High and no pocket pair

u should think about what opponent may have if u get to showdown u would have as near to 0 percent chance of winning hand.

u should of checked and re assessed to any bet to see how good ur odds were as opposed to been aggressive.

Hittting a middle pin is no where near a good enough hand to justify ur involvement get neither is open end with 1 card to come.