SHould I view Odds like this

[Dan Abnormal]

IF I have a pretty good pockets A 10 (I have 16K and 5 other people are offering me 16K to go all in, The odds would tell me I have a 20% chance of making 5x my chips (IN OTHER WORDS RIGHT TO 2nd place from 28th) - WELL I DID IT, if the river wouldnt of drowned me, the ACE had me set up nice. SO HAS ANYONE SMOKED ZINC cigars since that was the big prize THE PLATINUM ZYNC PACKAGE - DID WELL TRYING TO WIN SOME TAG Sunglasses but not good enough, - WON $5 in another tourny yesterday placing 68th out 2890 so. JUST UPDATING what the TUMBLEWEED IS DOIN

I mean preflop is this how I need to think to get to the final tables, those opportunities where multiple people are throwing out crazy amounts of chips, if I think I have something semi playable, IS MY THINKING RIGHT HERE. Even at 16K I was shortstacked and it was getting to that point where people seem to making moves (You know the point that I freeze and fold and slowly start lossing chips left and right for folding)


READING SLANSKY THeory of POker AND ALSO HAVE STARTED READING (since it finally got here) WINNING POKER TOURNIES One hand at a time VOL 1 and2 - (IF ANYONE GOT SOME examples they know off hand I really need to look at let me know (Im studying each one but Its hard to read when his tournaments people seem to play right and my torunaments, ALL first 8 of the hands he brings up would cause a ALL IN AVALACHE preflop. I did have some luck with people showing restraint to play right at WPT site yesterday



ANYWAYS I got tickets to see THE WALL LIVE NOW and thats only 7 minutes from the HARD ROCK CASINO

[villaridge]

no, u should not look at odds like that.

go read this, maybe it will get u started to think.

http://www.4kingpoker.com/article/10..._in_Poker.html

[villaridge]

you can listen to pink floyd or listen to the math of odds. Mixing of the two should only be attempted by individuals that have mastery of both subjects.

[Dan Abnormal]

I read through that now and few other things, FROM MY EXAMPLE on the other thread, WOULD I BE RIGHT IN the example,

IF I was playing for a flush and 6 people where in the POt (THE EXAMPLE WAS ALL MONEY STACKS WERE THE SAME) It was worth while for me to play for it, but if a flush opportunity did not exist and only the straight, then it would be wise for me to fold the hand unless nobody folded out of the pot (all 10 still remained)

THE PART I STILL CANT GRASP, IF I DID PLAY FOR A FLUSH, with only 3 people in the pot, why would I not want to stay in the pot even if the money isnt quite up to what I should of been made. I sort of get that over time I will lose more times than I win (SORTA OF BECAUSE Im still lost how the money in the pot is gonna make my flush lose or win more or less). But WHY AINT I GIVING ANY MORE POWER TO holding a nut card over just a card to make a hand.

Im trying to make a spread sheet with all these formulas so I have a quick Idea off the top of my head

since its limit I can keep the money figures in my hand minus 10% for house stuff

but Im not quite sure how to set up the formulas for as to put the money figures in and than have a comparison deal going to find out what type hands IM trying for compared to the money involved and then I will know real quick like if I need to be in the hand.

I also trying with these figures to make my range a little wider so I can see more flops and Id be able to make better decisions, Im not saying 72 or 84 or stuff like that but A-rag (Suited only) I have added in as many suited connectors I think are worthwhile to look at if Im looking for +EV hands but IM STILL TRYING TO GRIP +EV

I wanna be able to this off my head so I know immediatley.

[villaridge]

I read through that now and few other things, FROM MY EXAMPLE on the other thread, WOULD I BE RIGHT IN the example,

IF I was playing for a flush and 6 people where in the POt (THE EXAMPLE WAS ALL MONEY STACKS WERE THE SAME) It was worth while for me to play for it, but if a flush opportunity did not exist and only the straight, then it would be wise for me to fold the hand unless nobody folded out of the pot (all 10 still remained)

THE PART I STILL CANT GRASP, IF I DID PLAY FOR A FLUSH, with only 3 people in the pot, why would I not want to stay in the pot even if the money isnt quite up to what I should of been made. I sort of get that over time I will lose more times than I win (SORTA OF BECAUSE Im still lost how the money in the pot is gonna make my flush lose or win more or less). But WHY AINT I GIVING ANY MORE POWER TO holding a nut card over just a card to make a hand.

Im trying to make a spread sheet with all these formulas so I have a quick Idea off the top of my head.

Dan Dan Dan. ok, I will try once more.

1) poker is about math. and you know what, it's pretty well explained and thought out by others. YOU do not have to re-invent the wheel with poker. There are fundamentals to learn like pot odds, hand hands, EV, position, and number of players in the pot, and player reads. You can google each of them and find tons of info to explain each one.

The trick in poker is understanding each of them and then blending them together for each hand. This takes time. So when u say "I wanna be able to this off my head so I know immediatley. " I laugh. You want something that is impossible.

2) You are making posts that make NO sense. You are all over the map. Take this thread as an example. You start off talking about A 10 "IF I have a pretty good pockets A 10 (I have 16K and 5 other people are offering me 16K to go all in, The odds would tell me I have a 20% chance of making 5x my chips (IN OTHER WORDS RIGHT TO 2nd place from 28th) - WELL I DID IT, if the river wouldnt of drowned me, the ACE had me set up nice. SO HAS ANYONE SMOKED ZINC cigars since that was the big prize THE PLATINUM ZYNC PACKAGE - DID WELL TRYING TO WIN SOME TAG Sunglasses but not good enough, - WON $5 in another tourny yesterday placing 68th out 2890 so. JUST UPDATING what the TUMBLEWEED IS DOIN " what utter bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll tell you again. You are all over the map, telling us u got A 10, and zinc cigars and sunglasses and 20% chance of making 5x your chips. Seriously....what the fuck are you talking about?

3) I respond, and you come back with talking about another thread you made that started off with you having two pair, a K and Q on a flush board. and you folding a $4 call into a $70 pot. Folks responded. and the next thing I know you are talking straights that do not exist, and flushes that might or might not be there.

You come up with shit like "IF I was playing for a flush and 6 people where in the POt (THE EXAMPLE WAS ALL MONEY STACKS WERE THE SAME) It was worth while for me to play for it, but if a flush opportunity did not exist and only the straight, then it would be wise for me to fold the hand unless nobody folded out of the pot (all 10 still remained) "

wtf?????? there are 6 people in it and all 10 remained? lol

4) You need to stop and think about one thing at a time. You really cannot post about a 2 pair hand, and change it into a straight, then lose the straight, talk flush, and lose the flush and never get back to the two pair. It makes no sense.

5) There is a huge difference in enthusiasm for learning something and unbridled enthusiasm to learn. enthusiasm with structure of learning will reward you. Unbridled enthusiasm leads to post like "there are 6 people in it and all 10 remained" or "I had top two pair and flush and striaght....ohhhh wait, I didnt".

[Dan Abnormal]

My example told me (REMEMBER THIS WITH EVERYONE BETTING THE MINIMUM PER HAND to KEEP IT SIMPLY)

If I put the odds of me hitting the hand vs THE % of money I could win in the pot

IF I PLAYED FOR A STRAIGHT NOBODY COULD FOLD
IF I PLAYED FOR A FLUSH I need at least 6 people in the HAND


THERE IS NO 6 people playing and 10 PEOPLE PLAYING - IT SAYS IF ANYONE FOLDED AT THE TABLE, its not worth my money to go for a straight but IF 6 people (MEANING 4 people FOLDED) the % of me making the flush vs the money in the pot (THE whole situation is up I M going by at the time)

SO IS THERE NO TIME BY ALL THE NUMBERS THAT IF YOUR OUTS dont = % of outs vs % money in that different hands dont change if you play the hand or not.

ALL I SAID WAS WITH MY EXAMPLE I FOLD ANYTHING BUT A FLUSH and I FOLD THE FLUSH OPPORTUNITY IF LESS THAN 5 PEOPLE STAY IN THE HAND AT THE TURN

If my example is correct I can start adding different stacks and go from there IF IT IS NOT WHERE IS THE THE PROBLEM I took from POCKETS -FLOP- TURN to decide what the % says I should do with my hand.

EVERYTHING ON THAT THREAD IS NOW GONE EXCEPT THE POST I NEED TO KNOW IF IM GOT THE IDEA

AND REMEMBER THIS FOR LIMIT POKER

But to be my usual self, ITS NOT A LIFE PARTNER, so why am I gonna fold a flush that I know has a awesome chance of winning me money, but if the %'s dont equal up I should fold the flush opportunity because its not +EV (I guess) If i bet $4 to win a piot of $28 and win the pot (HOW IS THAT -EV) I aint gonna be married to that as a life partner for every hand, but why I fold a small pot win if I felt I was gonna win, EVEn Brunson says win the small pots

[Dan Abnormal]

Look I just want to be a complete player, THE CALLING ME OUT does not effect me, but IF I ASK for people to look over an example that took me an hour or so to lay out and post, ALL I NEED TO KNOW IF MY thinking is right because if it is I can start feeding this into the brain much quicker to process (EVEN IF MY EXAMPLE IS A BARF BAG TELL ME WHERE AND I CAN FIX IT)

READING A BOOK THAT TELLS ME inagine flipping a coin 5x and betting $2 everytime and the other person bets $1 youre alwasy at a -EV of .50 (FUCK THAT TELLS ME NOTHING TO MY HAND and hands I HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT) sorry thats the way THEORY of POKER starts out

ALSO SORRY on first post I was just updating yesterday s tourny as all were CONSISTANT where i Placed. ONe toruny was for TAG sunglasses, One was for MONEY and $100 Dunkin Donut cards (WON $5 in this) - and ONe was for ZInc cigar platinum package where I was thinking to hard and said these people are offering me 5:1 on my money to play a A10 preflop and I was thinking ok Im being offered 72K for 16K in a bet. (THATS THE ALL OVER THE PLACE CLEARED UP)

[sos_egg_n]

IF U DONT look at ur hole cards and neither does anyone else then yes u will have 4-1 but the basic rule of poker is ur odds are changing with every action on the table so u work out where ur at

ie - U DOnt look at ur cards 1 player goes allin u look u have 7 4 off....are u a even bet NO.

U HAVE 10 10 on 9 handed table u have have a 1 in 5.9 of been behind if player 1 pushed under the gun and is insta called next seat i wouldnt fancy chances of been ahead at all in many situations

[hojediade]

Hey guys,

Don't wanna disturb in any ways, but you probably need a 3rd part to the discuss.

First, Villa is right, you want all answers, but you don't seems to be able to make it clear, at least for a french member.
Then, we're not here to provide answers, we're not professors nor coaches. We can give you some advice on some part of the game, but we usually need a clear question, with an identified situation, to help you. Generic comments won't lead you anywhere, and if there was a law to play AT written in a book, i wouldn't give it a try, and would rather pick-up infos at the table to handle the situation clearly (if i'm ever able to).

That said, Dan/Rob, i really appreciate the way you want to improve your game, and will keep on comment if i ever feel concerned about it.

[Peteyweestro]

I think you are second guessing and questioning every play and hand way way too much, to me every hand is differant and needs to be played accordingly, there is no set hard rules, and to try to play 100% by the book hell any book is asking for trouble, but hey what do i know.