fulltilt - Rakeback prob

[sos_egg_n]

Hi all,
Has anybody had the issue on fulltilt where u have signed up using a affiliates code and not been aware of the consequences which is u cannot get your hands on the 27 percent rakeback but instead it is given to the random guy who's code u have used. As a result i stopped playing fulltilt as there ftps were ridiculous in comparison to pokerstars fpp's not alot i know but gives pokerstars a clear advantage.

Is there anyway this can be resolved?? or i can get rid of my affilate?? as this is the WORST loyalty scheme i will ever witness in my life.....even if i make it to a 103 years old although at my cholesterol rate i dont fancy that happening damn them bigmacs...but then u r so nice with lettuce mmmm and fries on the side...yum.............oh yeah ive gone of course any help with rake back issue would be appreciated

Thx

[kingjames07]

sounds like u got royally screwed there...that sucks... i am sure if you e-mail fulltilt you can have your account removed from that persons rakeback...im pretty sure our admin here @ 4king may be able to help you out....pm him and see what he says his name is "scrawnybob"

[scrawnybob]

hi

please read my long explaination below to get a bit of an understanding on rakeback and affiliates etc

4kingpoker Signups NOTE: IF you have previously signed up via 4kingpoker for sites where they now do offer rakeback then please CONTACT ME ...

Also if you think we dont offer rakeback on a site but could - because we may be able to especially for players that actually pay a decent amount to the poker rooms in rake

Basically ANY members with ANY questions on rakeback contact me

I will try where possible to look after our players ... please do this BEFORE messing around trying to cheat the system and setting up new accounts etc (alot get into trouble)

If you feel you play enough real money to actually justify rakeback and its possible for me to move my signups onto rakeback I WILL get you moved ... for example if you play on Carbon and have signed up via 4kingpoker PM me as I will be making a list for moving over

Understanding rakeback is not a right and affiliates are NOT scum

because its important to understand the importance of affiliates and that we are NOT scum or people who "screw" people over - we work hard writing content and providing free resources for players and offers & we earn money promoting and marketing poker rooms as a result - That money comes from the poker sites NOT from the players

ok so I know most players who know about rakeback then think affiliates have screwed them if they didnt get rakeback ... not so long ago we all felt confident we offered better than direct bonuses (we still do) but that this was effectively the best deal ... in the meantime Rakeback has evolved and players retrospectively feel they are entitled to something that wasnt even widely available at the time

but seriously players really really have to understand

a) players are NOT entitled to rakeback - its really NOT a right its a perk / a VIP bonus

b) the rakeback gets paid for mostly by the affiliate NOT the poker room - so you CANT get rakeback for the most part direct - you have to sign up via an affiliate

c) rakeback is relatively newer form of incentive / reward program paid for mostly by the affiliate by some affiliates

d) affiliates are (shock horror) entitled to make a living for all their hard work and should be paid by the poker rooms for promoting those sites and bringing them players

the poker business pays sites marketing / promoting their sites via performance related pay - therefore the sites that actually bring poker rooms good value players get paid - those that dont - dont (whereas advertising buys pay everyone even if they dont do anything)

affiliates didnt design the system also before rakeback sites like this one and other content sites reinvested money back to the members in tournaments and in resources for writing content etc etc

moving onto specific fulltilt rackback - you cant generally get it if you signed up direct to fulltilt ... so its NOT just that you signed up via an affiliate you wouldnt have got it direct either

and please DONT talk about affiliates as if there scum - affiliates are why there are any resources on poker on the internet at all - without us you wouldnt have ANY decent forums or resources.

4kingpoker offers Rakeback and will offer more sites soon

We can offer rakeback on several sites but its easier if you contact me

IF you have ANY questions about rakeback then please contact me via PM with any questions

Many poker rooms cant retrospectively change players over - Fulltilt wont for example move players from one tracker to another

also you shouldnt re-sign up to sites via other affiliates - because they do catch people doing what then become double accounts and close them

rakeback to be honest is a total mess - players missunderstand what affiliates get paid for and by whom and then feel somehow wrongly cheated ...

this just creats ill feeling on all sides

because why should someone being paid a fair fee by the poker rooms to promote a site ... then have to take a 85% pay cut and then still have to try to fully fund $100's in money added tournaments + work fulltime ?

especially when the poker rooms itself contributes far far less to the rakeback costs and doesnt fund forums private tournaments etc

I am in the process of sorting out something with Fulltilt but given that they dont pay even close to 27% to the affiliates before agreeing some way to pay rakeback - the amount left for the affiliate setting up the rakback deal is frankly nothing ... so forum tournaments would be more than a total loss

Alot of things would be helped if players could more effectively choose who they signed up under at the time - and also if affiliates had some flexibility to move players around

One of several big issues for me personally is IF I decide to earn practically nothing from promoting a site that will affect what I can or cant put back into tournaments -

the other big issue is that when I change over to rakeback on a site I very much prefer to be able to have ALL my signups moved onto rakeback where possible - unfortunately this isnt possible on alot of sites - so this leaves a dilema - offer rakeback to new signups but feel I havent looked after my old signups

In the case of pokerstars they effectively have an inhouse VIP program and rightly fund a rakeback style program themselves from THEIR money and separately pay affiliates THEIR money for marketing / promoting them separately ... this is how it should be done IMHO

In short Fulltilt will NOT move you from an affiliates tracking and they wont give you rakeback direct - you need an (rakeback) affiliate to get rakeback - once you are signed with an affiliate then that is your affiliate - there are ways round things but I'm not an affiliate who goes out of my way to screw other affiliate over.

cheers scrawnybob

[kingjames07]

DAMN bob u really laid it out there....lol... i responded to the OP in a way i was thinking he may have got "screwed" by an individual with a code not an " affiliate " meaning a site/forum admin such as yourself

me personally i have been contacted by a few people in my time online saying " here is a link sign up to this site thru me and get a bonus/rakeback"...though i never did it these people were individuals not people that ran any site or were anything else besides just a person tryin to make money off me...i fully believe that if you sign up for a poker site thru a site such as 4king then the admin of that site should make money off you..like you said u have to get ur money from somewhere and you deserve it for all the work that you do

[scrawnybob]

hi

thanks KJ totally understand where you and the OP are coming from with posts - I genuinely do

its a total dilema because fundamentally Ive always been straight with people, where alot of sites will be vague about the business I try not to be evasive

however time are changing and there are alot of what I think of as "thin" sites who dont really offer anything in the way of resources - just a rakeback offer and thats it

the problem is they ultimately earn the money (less granted by offering RB) but dont put anything else much back in

Sites like ours have to adapt and change to the new ways while trying to keep the community and forum games side of things going ... and hopefully growing

As I said earlier I will be changing over to offer rakeback on more sites as I think now it has got to the point where the players that are active in forums & that are also most valued (rake most) by the poker rooms (and therefore by affiliates) mostly know about and want rakeback

alot of forums (if they dont offer RB) dont like discussing it - I'm not going to hide or pretend rakeback isnt here - but I will BTW ban anyone discussing other sites offering or urls or touting rakeback offers ... IMHO specialist rakeback only sites are not good for poker and resource and information sites are far more useful for the majority of players starting out

however I want 4kingpoker to be the FIRST place our members and visitors come to signup to sites and IF rakeback is available on that network I will offer it on sites in that network

Most importantly IF you are a mid stakes or regular decent level real money player I want to help find you sites that you want to play on ... and your friends etc etc ...

Without those real money player signups to keep 4kingpoker going it makes it much harder to fund the league games etc which I feel are important to the forum - and which I would like to get bigger games too

so PM me if you have questions, PM me if there are sites you want to play and "need" rakeback for etc ... I'm all for getting the best offer for players IF that means we get more bigger players in the 4kingpoker family as that helps everyone ;-)

cheers scrawnybob

[sos_egg_n]

Thx for taking the time for a response Bob and i will see if i can be removed from my affiliate if fulltilt can tell me who it is.I would like to add obviously if my issue was with yourself clearly you would allow me to be removed or help which ever way you could which is appreciated. I understand your defence of affiliates but this affilate did not hunt me down i simply found a code to ENSURE i got the sign up bonus (which i was already entlited to) with no idea there was gain to be made from ME as you do not need help to hear of fulltilt even in the uk. As such my problem is not with affilates its the system which fulltilt have in place they make a minor deal when they have a promo like ftps x 2 / 3 and they had iron man which again they promote but what these promos give back are insignificant in comparison to what they would give me if i had a rakeback deal with 27percent return.

I am currently playing pokerstars at the moment as there vip scheme is much better than fulltilts i assume purely bcos they have not got the money to throw back at there players because they instead choose to reward a 3rd party

I would like to point out again my issue is not with affiliates but the scheme is simply floored and whomever came up with this system i would ASSUME has achieved nothing but ultimately lost a percentage (all beit small) of its players straight to other sites.

As for players not initially been aware or entilted to any rakeback this is not a problem BUT if any1 is entilted to any rakeback in my opinion there should be one person who heads that queue and that should be the player himself.

Kind regards

[scrawnybob]

hi

no worries I will try and address the points youve brought up individually ;-)

i will see if i can be removed from my affiliate if fulltilt can tell me who it is

FT wont tell you who your affiliate is - they WILL tell you which affiliate your NOT signed up under ... so this means you need to guess where your affiliate might be and then ask FT if

If you can find out your affiliate by a process of elimination then you can ask them if they can sort you out rakeback via them

FT wont help you to loose your tracked affiliate - I cant either but I guess you might find info via google on how you shouldnt do it

i simply found a code to ENSURE i got the sign up bonus (which i was already entlited to)

this is the problem - most sites have a direct offer which isnt as good as the better offer you can get signing via an affiliate this used to be part of content sites USP however some sites like FTP dont go out of their way to offer anyone (including affiliates) anything exceptional - as they are 2nd biggest site that is supposed to be enough of a reason

I am currently playing pokerstars at the moment as there vip scheme is much better than fulltilts i assume purely bcos they have not got the money to throw back at there players because they instead choose to reward a 3rd party

not really - pokerstars pay affiliates the same base as fulltilt on the comparible deal but pokerstars choose to ban affiliates from offering rakeback and pay for the VIP program themselves, where as FT allow rakeback via a very amended deal which leaves the affiliate earning practically nothing after offering rakeback and FT not really very much out of pocket as the affiliate is paying for the bulk of the rakeback programme

I would like to point out again my issue is not with affiliates but the scheme is simply floored

Indeed it is - totally

The problem is that our performance related pay is the best way for the business but this should be separate from player incentives / VIP / rakeback programme

at the moment there is something of a turf war going on between rakeback specialist sites who just offer deals and very little else - no content, no news, no real community, etc etc

there is IMHO an aweful lot of stealing players that are tracked to other sites & recycling players just for rakeback

content sites who started out differently before the rakeback became such a "must have" to high raking players and now I think everyone expects it (personally I think RB should be tiered and not full % across the board) but the important thing is that content sites have to change or else we wont be competitive anymore.

ultimately I think players will end up with the best end of the whole thing - it may mean some have to move around on a network or two - & FT is the most problematic one as they are standalone site but ultimately players will I think always look for the best deal

I just hope that if 4kingpoker has lost out to other sites - that members remain loyal or figure out ways to signup to new sites etc where we are equally offering the best deal

cheers scrawnybob

[sos_egg_n]

Thanks again Bob for speedy n detailed reply think i may have to except my time with FT is over as i can imagine process of elimination of affilates may take quite some time.

Although on the plus side they have sent me through an offer of the 600 dollar sign up bonus again and give me 10 dollars to fill out a survey.

So may have 1 final hooray with them before parting


Thanks again for your help.

[scrawnybob]

hi

if rakeback is a priority then send me a PM and I can look out some links for you for other sites offering rakeback

there are links here but additional ones need updating

so for the moment it's easier to PM me

cheers scrawnybob

[Alferg]

hi

please read my long explanation to get a bit of an understanding on rakeback and affiliates etc


cheers scrawnybob

Thanks for that info Bob. It cleared up the rakeback thing for me.
I wondered why poker sites offered rake back rather than just reduce the rake across the board (which would seem to encourage everyone to play at a site rather than just high volume grinders). Now i know - rakeback costs them virtually nothing!