So many tighters at full tilt

[verace2007]

Do u think that its hard playing on FTP coz there are a lot of tight players on that site. I have heard much stories about loose-agressive maniacs from USA, Canada and Australia but on fact most of them i have met are weak tighters. They all have Vpip about 10 on 9max. Its hard to find a fish with 30 Vpip for example. Even 20 Vpip is rare. They alike to limp strong cards (that thing i hate most of all). When i play SSS for example i raise AJs from CO and get re raised from guy who limped from UTG+1. What i must do? fold? i wanted to see what he got and re reaised all in. He showed QQ. Sick.... This tighters dont raise AQ from early position and when i raised much with AA they fold it. This all on 0.10-0.25 9 max limit. When i tryed Nl50 and Nl100 SSS i found it more aggressive and loose and asier to play.
What are u doing about average players level at fip?

[willie beaman]

On average, I'd say that the players there are loose-aggressive. There are some tight players playing there, but regardless the level, this is typically the player you will face.

[thejuanupsman]

This post makes me think I have not read enough about poker. I play a lot. But I have not read any books and don't read a lot about strategy in the forums. I have no idea what most of this post says. But I see very few tight players on fulltilt. Are these cash games you are playing? Or tournaments?

[luzipher]

Yep, I saw loose aggresive players in cash tables.
Is good when you have a hand, but is difficult try to chase a hand with people like this.
You can find any kind of surpraises:
Early today I raised 6BB with KK (because if you raise only 3 or 4BB maybe you have 5 callers and is pretty difficult play in this scenario) and two players call my bet.
The flop comes J and 2 another low card rainbow. One of them check, and the other player bet pot (almost 5 dollars). I though 10 seconds, and finally said to myself: if he have AA or a set, well, take all my money, but if you haven't those hands and as I think you are an aggresive player that only hit this J on the flop, I have you!
I sent an allin (about another 10 dollars) and he called with... KJ. No other J in turn and river.

[doudou]

but my AA always died in this site,and KK

[Berzerger]

I always adjust my image to the table. If everyone is tight, I turn all loose and aggressive and get rich stealing the blinds. If a maniac joins the table, I tighten up and catch him when I get good cards. But generally, if everyone is tight, they'll fold often in case they didn't hit. That's where conti-bets come in handy.

[wixx]

Can you cover Vpip in more detail for those of us who learned the game on the tables and not in the library? I have not played at FTP yet, but it will be the next site I start.

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Vpip:

Voluntarily put T$ in the pot.

When you through choice place money/chips in the pot. eg you've called the blind, raised the blind or called a raise from the blind. The forced blinds are not counted in this figure.

It is a percentage of the total hands dealt to you in which you've acted as above.

General advice for beginners is that if you've a VPIP of 25 % or greater at a full table of say 9 players you have leaks, or are creating situations where you will come a cropper on more occasions than you will not.

The figure is vary variable with the table type, number of players, your style etc. The following are very general guidlines for the full table 9 players:

0-15% would indicate a rockie (small winner)
15-25% a TAG (Winner)
25-35% a LAG (Looser)
35+ LOOSER.(Deluded)

Obviously the more hands you have on yourself or another player the more accurate the information will be.

The figures also depends on the cards you are dealt and it is one of the reasons I use external software to track mine and others play. The sites generally provide stats for each game you play, but realistically this isn't as indicative of a players style as you might think.

When the number of players drops, the VPIP will increase, to a point at HU where it could range from 50-100% depending on the factors at hand.

It is a pointer/guide and to become effective information in my book has to be coupled with other pieces of information at hand.

How they play their blinds.
How many hands do they win when they stay for the flop
How many hands they take to the showdown.
How many hands win at the showdown,
Are they a stealer,
Do they raise preflop or LwPC (Limp with preflop call of a raise)
And their aggression factor on each street.

Someone once said that poker is a game of 'incomplete information'. Try and include as much as you can in your decisions and you will fair better.

HTH.


NF4.

[scrawnybob]

hi

also and this may be a bit contraversal all these % are a bit relative ... definately useful but by the book TAG players are generally the ones who will moan most about loosing, bad beats and why they hell did that player do this is that

there are alot of very good (winning players) now playing much more LAG small pot poker (especially in cash games) - think Negreanu or Hanson

but the killer and most crucial factor is their post flop play ... and this IMHO is when you get it right the difference between having a frustrating TAG grinding game and having a more flexible LTAG (made that up) game

ie. if you think you can limp in to see a flop cheap in a multiway pot or a pot with a player you think you can out play and / or get to pile into the pot ...

then you play those more marginal hands (not talking 68off 72 off etc but 2nd tier hands) - see the pot cheap and then either decide ...

a) I have not chance to steal / out play or win the hand

b) I have a good chance to steal a small pot here cheaply

c) I have got "lucky" cheaply and hit my hand well enough to semi bluff / win the hand legitimately or most usefully ...

d) I have hit a massive hidden hand no-one (including TAG monster hands) will be able to spot and therefore will pay me hansome (and bitch)

This is not to suggest that you have a %flop rate of 100% on the off chance - that isnt LAG that is just stupid play

but if you can confidently open up your game a bit with alot more thinking going on then you are no longer only playing AA KK etc textbook and moaning at BB's you are playing poker with thought and contextual thinking and strategy - which is

a) more enjoyable - if you like to challenge yourself

b) more profitable - if you can do it correctly

I personally will be happy seeing 35% of flops - IF and only if I am sure that as a result I am ...

a) seeing more flops and "getting lucky" I can extract value over the cost of seeing additional flops

b) seeming like a loose either passive or aggressive player ... enabling me to get pots much bigger when I have very decent hands or take down more small pots because of a tricky image

eg. if you have a very tight image the implied value of a pot if taken to the river is going to be smaller (because people know you only play good cards and therefore fold because even they can figure they are beat) if you have a loose image and are playing genuinely loose players ... you can be sure that a few extra speculative hands per hour will have potential to reap big rewards

also as a side effect if being pecieved to be loose - they will payoff your AA etc early when you want them too ... then is the time not to limp in pots etc

I wouldnt recommend this strategy to a newer player as I dont think without playing textbook TAG for a while its easy to really spot the implied odds of hands on all streets and play accordingly

but IMHO alot of BB's recently are coming down to a better player seeing cheap pots and playing better than its just terrible players with no clue

the most dangerous players can look like the worst players ... however you will spot which are which by who has the most money / profit as a result of playing in a "similar looking" yet fundamentally different way

cheers scrawnybob

[Poker Orifice]

The sites generally provide stats for each game you play, but realistically this isn't as indicative of a players style as you might think.

Any decent software program (every single one I've seen) have many different filter options. One can track another's play in many varying situations, ie. short-handed tables, ring games and different buy-in levels.
I've actually also found that even if checking one's 'overall playing style' on one of those sites (based on all hands played at all levels and in all types of games) that they are very indicative of one's style of play. If they claim the player to be loose,.. watch and see,.. Yup,. .they're playing at least 3 hands every orbit (some even WAYYYY more, lol).

I think some of the software programs with filters set up appropriately are awesome and super accurate. just my opinion