Crazy betting in HORSE - How to handle it.

[WarriorZeb]

I've only recently started playing HORSE and Stud Hi. The thing that i find hardest to get a handle on is the betting. Just a tad crazy. I have a good starting hand but say like in Omaha and Razz what starts as good can quickly turn pretty ugly. The problem is that the betting just goes crazy with raises,rereaises and rereraises to the max. What i have also found is that the people pushing so hard(certainly early on) are the ones that have little idea what the idea of the game is as often proven by them going out - Fast. The difficulty is that their pushing has burnt through my stack. I either go with it and my hand collaspses,or i flat out lose , or i duck out when it gets to crazy and still have a damaged stack. Initially i was having a lot of success with these mixed games but now this betting (which i think is more worthy of an FT freeroll) pattern is making it difficult for me to get to grips with.

Any advice on how to either maintain a decent stack throughout or build one good enough to get ITM. For a start where can i find a list of the best starting hands for each game?
Thank You in advance for any asistance.
zeb

[villaridge]

I started my learn HORSE quest about 2 months ago.

Some quick pointers:

1) Horse is really 3 games. that is
A) Holdem
B) Omaha
C) Stud (razz is a stud game, just upside down)

each variation requires study and is very different

In Omaha u can only use 2 of ur cards

In the stud games, watch others door cards before they fold, as this info will really help u later in a hand

Position is King, and a lot of people forget position with the stud and omaha games.

study, it will improve your overall game

Oh yeah. patience,

[illphillllllll]

i think the best starting hands for some of the games are pretty obvious, holdem-AA, razz-A23, stud-AAA. these are the 3 easiest games to pick up on in horse, in the stud games you should be paying attention to the folded face up cards being dealt also, it gives you an edge when figuring out what you and your opponent(s) need. the omaha games are a little trickier, sometimes a strong draw is a favorite over a made hand so you really want to brush up on your omaha knowledge by either playing or watching some omaha games. my advice would be to play your hands as cheap as possible until you get a little more comfortable playing. in o/8 never play middle connectors like 5678-78910 or hands like that, problem with these hands is you will almost always lose the low end and if you make a straight it wont always be the nuts. also in omaha you want to be playing hands where all 4 of your cards are working together, it gives you more possible winning hand combinations.

[xxmommaxx]

In my opinion, in any type of poker, patience is a huge major factor.

When I play HORSE, I especially have to be in a positive, patient mood or I never make it past the first few rounds. Flush chasers, draw chasers, just plain old calling stations, will suck you dry very quickly if you can't wait for the right opportunity to put you chips on the line.

Another aspect of HORSE is to pay attention to the table very closely throughout each type of game. Make a note if someone seems weak at one or two particular games. It can come in handy later in the game, or even in a future game. You will often see the same people after you've played HORSE for awhile.

I often sit back during the first rounds of Holdem and Omaha while some of the chasers and maniac re-raisers are out. When RAZZ comes around, I can often pick up a few chips. It seems less people know how to play this. So, I look for the opportunity to take advantage of that.

During the Stud portions, go back to being very patient. You will see the chasers come alive again, if they were quiet during the RAZZ game or got knocked out by your superior RAZZ skills...lol.

Good Luck.

[scrawnybob]

hi & welcome to the forum

BTW no worries about the other post in poker strategy ;-)

As NB1961 mentioned you might find one of my other sites helpful for all sorts of horse poker strategy ...

Learn How To Play HORSE Poker

The articles include the basic HORSE Poker Rules

and I think about 20 articles for beginner, intermediate and advanced strategies for all the HORSE games including rules and starting hands for each game ...

Texas Holdem Rules

Omaha Rules

Razz Rules

7 Card Stud Rules

Eight or Better Rules

hope thats a help - and we also have a monthly HORSE game at the moment at FullTilt Poker

cheers scrawnybob

[rgchan]

Just a comment on what you said about crazy betting.Unless you have the NUT hand or NUT draws I would advise you to stay out until the crazies are out.By Nut draw I mean you have the Ace for the flush and not the King or Queen.I agree they are either poor players, bluffing or just too aggressive.An example i was in a Stud h/l hand last to act.A player 1st to act had a pair of 2,s showing(4cards) and raises.Next player re-raises as well.And the 3rd player showing 2 low cards re-raises capping the betting.Now i have a pair of Queens and call.Next round the 2nd player draws a deuce and the 3rd player another Low card and i didn,t improve my Queens.They cap the betting again!!The blinds were high so i folded and got.It turned out the 1st player only had a pair of 2,s but kept betting.The 2nd player only had a pair of 8,s and kept re-raising while the 3rd player had the only possible low hand and was happily re-raising.I couldn,t believe how bad these players were.They weren,t dragging my chips into that BingoFest for 1/2 the pot though.
RG

[hojediade]

I agree with you all. Sometimes you can't beat idiotic plays. Even patience isn't always rewarded. So i would say if you find weak players, go for their chips and call their raise. If you aren't too unlucky, you'll probably and winning the pot and make the money.
Accordingly with this purpose, i had a hand this morning, that drives me crazy or almost and show how poor knowledge some of the OL players have, even tho i didn't play it well enough to make him fold. My table image was as usual ultra-tight and it was second round of Razz.

Full Tilt Poker Game #15392568701: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (112845427), Table 1 - 150/300 Ante 25 - Limit Razz - 4:52:41 ET - 2009/10/17
Seat 1: tuffty1 (3,005)
Seat 2: Franballs (3,341)
Seat 3: EdisonPk1 (841), is sitting out
Seat 4: gootster69 (1,515)
Seat 7: Snap1229py (1,728)
Seat 8: hojediade (1,570)
tuffty1 antes 25
Franballs antes 25
EdisonPk1 antes 25
gootster69 antes 25
Snap1229py antes 25
hojediade antes 25
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to tuffty1 [8h]
Dealt to Franballs [9d]
Dealt to EdisonPk1 [5s]
Dealt to gootster69 [Jd]
Dealt to Snap1229py [Qc]
Dealt to hojediade [8s 4c] [7h]
Snap1229py is high with [Qc]
Snap1229py brings in for 50
hojediade calls 50
tuffty1 has 15 seconds left to act
tuffty1 has timed out
tuffty1 folds
tuffty1 is sitting out
tuffty1 has returned
Franballs completes it to 150
EdisonPk1 folds
gootster69 raises to 300
Snap1229py has 15 seconds left to act
Snap1229py folds
hojediade raises to 450
Franballs has 15 seconds left to act
Franballs has timed out
Franballs folds
Franballs is sitting out
gootster69 calls 150
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to gootster69 [Jd] [3c]
Dealt to hojediade [8s 4c 7h] [Tc]
Franballs has returned
hojediade bets 150
gootster69 calls 150
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to gootster69 [Jd 3c] [Th]
Dealt to hojediade [8s 4c 7h Tc] [4s]
hojediade bets 300
gootster69 calls 300
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to gootster69 [Jd 3c Th] [5c]
Dealt to hojediade [8s 4c 7h Tc 4s] [7c]
gootster69 checks
hojediade checks
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to hojediade [8s 4c 7h Tc 4s 7c] [Ts]
gootster69 has 15 seconds left to act
gootster69 checks
hojediade checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hojediade shows [Ts 8s 7h Tc 4s 7c 4c] a pair of Fours
gootster69 shows [Kc 3h Jd 3c Th 5c Ad] J,T,5,3,A
gootster69 wins the pot (2,150) with J,T,5,3,A
EdisonPk1 has returned
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,150 | Rake 0
Seat 1: tuffty1 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 2: Franballs folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: EdisonPk1 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: gootster69 showed [Kc 3h Jd 3c Th 5c Ad] and won (2,150) with J,T,5,3,A
Seat 7: Snap1229py folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: hojediade showed [Ts 8s 7h Tc 4s 7c 4c] and lost with a pair of Fours

I'd probably should have checked the 4th and 5th street to raise later on 6th and 7th, but i feel like that stupid guy would have called. Anyway i still don't understand why he calls PF, and then on 4th and 5th. Any idea?
Is he only donk.

[LombardiStix]

I don't know sometimes. Maybe the guy had been watching your play and thought you were not being honest. Maybe he was tilted... who knows. The truth is everyone is drawing in that game until you get your 5 so ?

[Terminal Frost]

Those kind of hands make me think they know what's coming or they had their brain removed at puberty. I have no idea why he was even in the hand to begin with.

The fact that he called on 4th street with K3J3 is mind-boggling.

How do these people dress themselves in the morning?

[hojediade]

How do these people dress themselves in the morning?

I think they ask someone to dress themselves. I feel like they don't have their brain removed at puberty as they probably aren't that old yet.