Play to get paid?

[GOIVIT]

Don't know how I missed this post earlier, but it is great. Lots of good ideas. I personally take this approach:

But the real answer to your question is that you first need to reach ITM before winning a tourney. AND, the fact is that you can still win, even if you reach ITM real short. A short stack in early ITM could become the winner later on. There is no rules that tells you can't win a tournament if you are SS in early ITM stages. After all, the best time to become chipleader in a tourney is when you're HU.

This works best for me as I have a limited BR at this time so building it slowly is OK with me. Of course I would love a big pay day but I''m patient.

Again a great topic!

[Poker Orifice]

Question is too vague for me.. and I know you don't want to hear about philosophy of odds, etc. BUT.. there are some things in general that I'm looking at on or near bubble play...
Stack size in relation to blinds & antes is crucial!!!!!! To me it's not all that important if my stack size is avg. or just under of over avg. What matters most is..... how big is my stack size in relation to the blinds & antes. You mentioned here that your stack isn't so small that you'd need to be open-shoving.. BUT.. how big is it (size matters, lol).

If I'm on a stack of between 14-20bb's.. I'm never opening without intentions of going all the way with my hand (being prepared to call if shoved back on). Opening & then folding is terrible imo on a stack of this size.
As far as whether or not I'm going to call off to another player's preflop shove..... a) how do I know that I'm ahead preflop??? how far ahead am I?... and how can we ever honestly make this assessment???
If cards were face up and I was way ahead.... for sure I'm going to get my chips into the middle. imo you really can't pass up on plus EV spots in an MTT. There isn't enough money to be made if you're regularly playing MTT's to just cash. You need to look for spots so that you can make a decent run at the final table.

On another note... if my stack size is so small that it won't be that advantageous to get it in then just cashing might be my goal at that point but without some more situational details it's impossible to really give you an opinion on the deal.
Also... I've actually had some decent cashes while sitting on next to nothing in chips on the bubble (a couple of times only 2 or 3bb's in my stack after taking a blow near the bubble and have actually gotten lucky and made a run to the final table in a moderately large field tourneys).

to sum up... as usual it really 'depends' on alot of factors to be able to just fit the answer in a box.

[LombardiStix]

Ok... yes the fact is I plagued my own philosophical question by giving you the specific situation. The only reason I put out the "specific" situation at all was because I didn't want twenty of the following "You've got to win and not just go for the cash because you're playing poker and thats what you are trying to do" and other vague bs posts.

However PO you actually did answer the question. You spoke to your mindset and the factors involved in your decision making when this time in the tournament has come. You are wisely looking at your stack related to the blind size. You are looking to make a final table run. That seems like you biggest intent. Unless your stack is extremely low then, you see it more important to make it ITM.

So I would sum up your response as one that you play to make it in the top 1-10 in most MTT.

But again the question was vague because I dont want you to say I'd call or I'd fold... I want your reasoning and your ultimate goal behind such reasoning.

I offered this up to see a crossectional of MTT motivations and what we each consider to be a "successful tournament"




Stix

[illphillllllll]

i don't have an exact answer to what your asking but i can tell you how i approach bubble time in tournies. i will take chances during bubble play if i feel it will put me in a better position to win. winning 1 tourny makes up for 100 itm's so you have to put yourself in position for the occasional win. if i feel my opponent has KQ and i have A8 preflop i won't call an allin just because i'm ahead, i need more of an edge than that to gamble. if i seen him push with ace rag a few times then i'm willing to call with A10, which i consider a gamble.

[Poker Orifice]

Over the past couple years I've put together a large collection of poker articles, e-books, strategy guides, etc. I've just purchased a new computer and haven't transferred them over but do have some of interest in regards to MTT play as we're approaching the bubble. I'm going to go see if I can't find the one I'm thinking about at the moment and will post it (let's see if I can actually find it.... lol).
I don't have the author's name..... so it's kinda lame that I'm posting it without quoting the author.... umm.... just know it's not my article and to the author... "thank-you sir and I will try to find what your name is so that I can post it here"

Playing correctly on the bubble of a multi-table tournament, especially those with large fields, is imperative to achieving a high win rate. It's a boring first sentence isn't it? I already broke the cardinal rule of a short essay writer and gave you a boring first sentence and now I expect you to keep reading this whole article? Yes, I absolutely expect you to keep reading, because questions about how to play on the bubble are very common, and the answers are important.
The key to understanding correct bubble play is taking a step back from the immediate situation and looking at the tournament as a whole. We are all very aware of the fact that the money is in the top few spots, but there is a psychological barrier for many players in getting some money back. I think for many people it's the idea that if they made the bottom of the money in every tournament they would be a wining player and after making the money they would sometimes be able to go on and win. No one wants to leave a tournament after multiple hours of play with nothing to show for it. This kind of thinking is flawed.
The only way to make money in poker is to cut through all the things that distract you and look for the money, which we can express as EV or Expected Value. If you would really like to be able to say that you didn't spend those hours playing for nothing, and it will really make you unhappy to go out on the bubble, then by all means, play a conservative and careful game. But don't lie to yourself about why you are doing it. If you play in any way other than the most profitable possible strategy, then you are giving up EV. That means you are basically spending money in order to be happier or more comfortable with your decisions. When you look at it that way, most players can see that they don't want to sacrifice value at the tables in order to feel better, they just want to win the most money they can.

In order to focus on the money and make those profitable choices, especially on the bubble where it can be tough to do, we must leave all of those psychological factors behind and make the right plays, even if it means that we are more likely to "bubble" the tournament, because we play poker to make money, not to make *the* money. Getting past those barriers is easier once you can see clearly how they work, so doing a little soul searching about why you play badly on the bubble can be a big help.

Once you get past the psychological roadblocks and want to play correctly on the bubble instead of playing comfortably, you'll need to know what adjustments are correct. Some of the basics are listed below, and I encourage you to seek out other resources in the PocketFives Strategy Archives, on the forums, and through other means, in order to increase your win rate during a key time in the tournament.

General Bubble Truths

1. The money jump from the player before the bubble to the next player who goes out is very small in the context of the entire prize pool, and the big money is still very far away, so tournament payout considerations don't mean nearly as much on the bubble as most players believe. Seeing the jump from $0 to $100 just the same as the jump from $100 to $200 is typically correct.

2. According to ICM simulations, correct play on the bubble is very close to that of a cash game in most situations. Because the blinds are large compared to the stacks and the players are usually too timid, correct play in a cash game would be to be very aggressive and steal those blinds if the table will let you get away with it. It may take a little practice to determine when and how often you can run over the table around the bubble, but as you get better at it you will see that you can accumulate lots of chips fairly easily and your confidence will build.

3. You must reassess your table conditions constantly. If someone has determined that they are not going to make it to the bubble with the stack they have you may find yourself forced to call a tiny all-in re-raise with complete junk, and when the whole table sees you show a junk hand they may start re-raising you, which creates big problems. It's also possible that a big stack may have been moved to the table who will re-steal from you and you will have to shut down unless you can go all-in to take away the fold equity he gets from a re-raise. In this case pay close attention to rule #4.

4. Avoiding other big stacks is very important. You need a strong hand to tangle with another big stack, and most of the other big stacks will know that they need a strong hand to tangle with you. Google the term Bubble Factor or read Kill Everyone (excellent tournament book) for a complete explanation, or just take my advice and don't play pots with stacks that are nearly as large or larger than yours. Bully the little guys, just like the playground.

5. Have a huge gap between the hands you will raise with and the hands you will call or re-raise with. Timid medium stacks on the bubble usually won't raise without a big hand, and unless you are sure that you can make them fold, a resteal is usually a bad play. Open raising will be your most profitable situation, but if you are finding that there is always a raise before you get a chance to act then you may need to resort to taking some risks and going all-in over the top of the raiser and hoping to slow them down on future rounds.

6. Know when to get on the brakes. It's easy to get caught up in the allure of running over the table, but sometimes you just don't get that option. If you try to force it when the table is very active and willing to play hands, or another big stack has decided that they will be the table captain whether you like it or not, you may just have to wait it out. You can still steal the blinds when you get a chance, and if you do get a real hand you'll be able to reraise and win a sizable pot, but otherwise you will be stuck folding most of your hands just like the rest of the table.

7. Remember to disappoint your opponents. If you were in the big blind right now, what you not want to have happen. Now take whatever it is that the other players don't want you to do and make it happen.

8. Put in the last raise. If you only call the last bet against a short stack or with aces or kings, but you are willing to put in a bet or raise with a much wider range, you are probably on the path to correct bubble play.

If you are having trouble on the bubble, do some research, let go of your psychological barriers, and play the style that you learn is correct. Think about why you are doing things and if you come up with any reason except the almighty Expected Value, rethink your play and find a way to get the most value out of the situation and make the right play every time. The bubble doesn't have to be scary. A little study and a little confidence can go a long way.

[hojediade]

Another great resource from... PO.

I wonder how many GO of poker e-books you collected, but it probably don't reach the amount of poker vids.

C ya later PO, and thank's again for your "implication".

[LombardiStix]

Excellent resource PO. I absolutely agree and tried to get at the same "point" several posts ago that adjusting your play to "make it in the money" is a weak overall strategy. It doesn't make fiscal sense and it is an absolute barrier that we can all take advantage of. Your article included many specifics which should be beneficial to anyone who takes them seriously and it was written in plain English so I thank you again for that contribution.

Stix

[JasonColeman]

my goal is always to cash first, after that is when i really aim for the top....not to say that i dont try and win the whole time, but i vary my strategies up depending number of players, payouts, my chips stack....its definetly not an exact science by any means....best of luck to you!!!