Short stacked, when to push?

[beanfacekilla]

Hello. At what point does it become all in or fold? 10 BB's, 5 BB's? Anyone? Thanx. Peace.

[Peteyweestro]

If i have less then 10x the BB, i will 99% shove pre flop if i am playing the hand at all

[Assistanc3]

Depends on the blind structure and where the blinds are situated.

Personally I noticed pushing with less then 10 big blinds or less is to soon. In theory your suppose to score a few blinds from time to time or run into a top 5 hand, fortunately people call with much worse so waiting can sometimes be the best option.

Also you should think about why you got short stacked, how you have been playing the past 2 orbits (how others see your image) and if you feel lucky.

Really its a pick your poison kinda approach

[beanfacekilla]

Depends on the blind structure and where the blinds are situated.

Personally I noticed pushing with less then 10 big blinds or less is to soon. In theory your suppose to score a few blinds from time to time or run into a top 5 hand, fortunately people call with much worse so waiting can sometimes be the best option.

Also you should think about why you got short stacked, how you have been playing the past 2 orbits (how others see your image) and if you feel lucky.

Really its a pick your poison kinda approach

Thank you sir. I appreciate the good advice. It is ver smart to consider how people view you as a player at the table. Peace bro.

[Logan]

5 years back the number was 5bbs to push, then that change to 10bb´s, at this point a lot talk about 12bbs.

The thing is, if you have 13bbs then you still can make a raise 3x and still get 10bb left, with 12bbs if you raise 3x you will go down to 9bbs so at this point looks better to just shove and avoid later problems in the hand (example raise 3x then hit your hand or not and make a cbet) with this amount of chips you can´t really play postflop game so is better just shove. (i push with around 12bb´s left now)

BUT, when to push is giving by table, stacks around and positions.

If you have 10bbs and rest of table have 20bbs or more i need to 2ble up now to be even, if wait to i get 5bbs left then our fold equity goes down because most players will have 4 times our stack and can call us lighter wich give chance to more beats.

If table is around same stacks 12-15bbs and no one is pushing we can wait, if no one want to push and all have 10bbs or less then still is ok to wait (but some times you can take advantage on this), if table decide that until get 5-8bbs start to push then that is the time (if all same stacks).

Pretty much will be stacks dependant, the point is that when i decide to push my stack should be at least healthy to can make damage to others. If not with same stacks at least 2/3 of other players stacks, this way they will think more before call, if you go to the point your stack only cost half of others stacks or 1/3 of stacks, then can call you lighter and can end with more than 1 caller wich we don´t want. When we decide to shove the best is end with only 1 caller and that will happen only if our stack still can hurt someone if they lose the hand, if they lose and still will have a healthy stack then you give the chance they could like to gamble.

If you are the shorstack because get a beat and are planing to push, consider other stacks around and how much damage your stack can make, that will tell you when need to push. Best positions are CO, BTN, SB and BB. if you have a strong hand no matter if is already open, but if your hand is not that strong the best is that you open the hand.

By this time you already should know who is who in your table and have a idea who could call you and who don´t unless get strong hands, also you should know if you can push with atc to your bb from sb when the times come, a lot of times is better to just push blind (atc) from sb to bb than push with a medium hand from utg or early (because you have all the rest of table behind and some times some one will wake up with a hand), but in sb to bb you already asure that are versus only one player and just with this have 50% chances he fold (more if he is tighter or less if is looser aside of his hand), so is important that by that time you should know if your left player is tight or loose to can have a idea if you have better chances.

Notice this are times "when" to push, we never talk about holding cards, that is another topic.

[beanfacekilla]

5 years back the number was 5bbs to push, then that change to 10bb´s, at this point a lot talk about 12bbs.

The thing is, if you have 13bbs then you still can make a raise 3x and still get 10bb left, with 12bbs if you raise 3x you will go down to 9bbs so at this point looks better to just shove and avoid later problems in the hand (example raise 3x then hit your hand or not and make a cbet) with this amount of chips you can´t really play postflop game so is better just shove. (i push with around 12bb´s left now)

BUT, when to push is giving by table, stacks around and positions.

If you have 10bbs and rest of table have 20bbs or more i need to 2ble up now to be even, if wait to i get 5bbs left then our fold equity goes down because most players will have 4 times our stack and can call us lighter wich give chance to more beats.

If table is around same stacks 12-15bbs and no one is pushing we can wait, if no one want to push and all have 10bbs or less then still is ok to wait (but some times you can take advantage on this), if table decide that until get 5-8bbs start to push then that is the time (if all same stacks).

Pretty much will be stacks dependant, the point is that when i decide to push my stack should be at least healthy to can make damage to others. If not with same stacks at least 2/3 of other players stacks, this way they will think more before call, if you go to the point your stack only cost half of others stacks or 1/3 of stacks, then can call you lighter and can end with more than 1 caller wich we don´t want. When we decide to shove the best is end with only 1 caller and that will happen only if our stack still can hurt someone if they lose the hand, if they lose and still will have a healthy stack then you give the chance they could like to gamble.

If you are the shorstack because get a beat and are planing to push, consider other stacks around and how much damage your stack can make, that will tell you when need to push. Best positions are CO, BTN, SB and BB. if you have a strong hand no matter if is already open, but if your hand is not that strong the best is that you open the hand.

By this time you already should know who is who in your table and have a idea who could call you and who don´t unless get strong hands, also you should know if you can push with atc to your bb from sb when the times come, a lot of times is better to just push blind (atc) from sb to bb than push with a medium hand from utg or early (because you have all the rest of table behind and some times some one will wake up with a hand), but in sb to bb you already asure that are versus only one player and just with this have 50% chances he fold (more if he is tighter or less if is looser aside of his hand), so is important that by that time you should know if your left player is tight or loose to can have a idea if you have better chances.

Notice this are times "when" to push, we never talk about holding cards, that is another topic.

Ok thanks for the good advice. Perhaps I wait too long to push. I like this idea much better.

[Assistanc3]

Ok thanks for the good advice. Perhaps I wait too long to push. I like this idea much better.

going from tight to loose is one of the quickest ways to drain your bankroll

[beanfacekilla]

going from tight to loose is one of the quickest ways to drain your bankroll

Not super loose, just a little more. But it didn't work for the one game, so I am back to my norm.

[Poker Orifice]

"IT depends".
Firstly it depends upon what game you're talking about here. (ie. is it a Turbo STT, reg. STT, MTT, satellite, etc.). < there's a big difference between these.

If you can get a bit more specific with your question, I'll try to give you a more specific answer (note - you might be surprised how wide we can profitably shove in some spots).
I've got a couple of shoving charts I picked up off some coaches (MTT & SNG) & can plug in some hand ranges from positions if you're interested (to give you a better idea... ie. we have 10bb's in HJ.. what do we need to shove here with?).

[Poker Orifice]

Here's an example (or two) for MTT play... 'assuming that everyone has you covered by 2x, with one person randomly having less chips & another being roughly equal'

with 5bb's UTG+1 we can shove top29.7% (A2s+,A5o+,K5s+,K9o+,Q7s+.Q9o+,J8s+,JTo+,T8s+,55+)