What to do with 66 in a touney...

[EllaGrace]

When you are on the low end of average stack. In my situation I was in the bb. Everyone has folded to me except the sb who has 5 times my chip stack and is calling loose?

Just want your thoughts.

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Interesting

Your problem here is implied odds i think.

At this point you want to grow your stack not loose it.

There are only 2 players in pot. The other player is more than likely to look you up whatever you do and whilst you might be ahead preflop, will a pair of 6's hold up on a flop never mind at the end.

You would prefer to see a couple of limpers at least ahead of you and a call from the SB for when you do hit your set you are going to get one tasty pot.

As it is you fold to a raise or check and see the flop, unless you hit that set you're gone.

You need a fat pot in this situation to give you the implied odds to play and then go on and hit your set.

What you think?

[jacks_off4me]

I say - "depends" in your situation.

because there are several factors youneed to consider before making any move from your position and not only with 66's.

bacause if you are a player to grow big or go home, then i'd push them from any position (if no one acted before me) and espesially from the big blind because i think that BB is the best position in Holdem bacause you got to see what everyone did, and that its why 66's are not bad from that position. you see, the all-in move from that position itself is a lethal move, so with sixes you even have a half hand to make it...

also its important to know how many people left in the tourney and is the stack worth risking here and now... and what players you have at your the table.

in general, i play them hard in position but basically try to get a cheap flop with that pair, it isnt better than 10 9, 10 j s/o IMO...

[GypsyTea]

When you are on the low end of average stack. In my situation I was in the bb. Everyone has folded to me except the sb who has 5 times my chip stack and is calling loose?

Just want your thoughts.

Hi Katharine,

What Jacks-off4me says I agree with (every thing esp about the BB)

This is a very interesting question, and it comes up a lot.

Ian "The Razor" Fraser ( A GOOD UK pro Poker Player) has said in public (TV) that in a simulated computer test he did, 66 hits the flop more than ANY OTHER pocket pair!

I have done a similar test over 25,000,000 NLHD hands, I do not know what softwear he used, However My test came out diffrent than his!

Dolye Brunson ( if I remember right of the top of my head) said theres roughly a 40% chance of hitting a A or a K on any random flop.

In addition to what Jacks_off4me said, I can only revert to what Dan Harrington Says.

Please read this:-

http://www.4kingpoker.com/forum/texa...urnaments.html

Now I like to play my blinds with any2cards, I play in 3 different card room every week IN 2 of them card rooms If I get a raise or a re-raise on a flop, I tend to belive them!
In one of the card rooms (Loose game) I tend to attack and re-raise with a lot stronger starting hand critirea for MY starting hand.

Point being, you have to know who and what the other players PLAY! That only comes with experience of Those Players.

I dont know if this script helps, so if you want to ask anything please feel free to do so in this thread.

Regards

The Gypsy

[scrawnybob]

hi

Personally in you position chip wise (you said you were low average chip stack) I wouldn't be feeling the need to panic

therefore with 66 I would be most biased by position

on the button / 1 before / maybe 2 before I would put in an automatic raise with just about any 2nd / 3rd tier hands (on my own mental scale I see 66 as a 3rd Tier hand)

how much would depend on how I had decided the hand could be played before I see my cards - in other words based on the other players previous plays and crucially the chips in front of them

I think subliminally I've been working a bit with Q and M stuff without really quantifying it precisely

so with 66 and alot of limpers I would want to put in a 2x or 3x BB raise just to reduce a bigger field by a couple of players and give notice to those that wanted to stay in that I meant business (with something)

bear in mind a big part of my game can be based around stealing control of the button

ie. raising late mid position purely with the intention of getting the button and the 1 off button to fold ... thus give me the equivalent of the button for the following rounds

if however you were in early / early mid position with 66 I would limp

unless you really are up against the blinds and have to commit your chips now or in the blinds - dont make yourself vunerable - your not out and your not close to being out

so limp and hope the pot gets built with other limpers - then hope that the button ideally just calls or puts in at worst a 2x 3x BB raise out of habit (again you can try to predict this) which you can then justify calling based on how much is in the pot already and then see how the flop comes

and then be prepared to fold (sounds like a waste) but far better to make one mistake and fold than make another feeling pot committed (when your not) - this happens far far too much BTW

these sorts of hands need to be played realistically post flop - hence the benefit of position if your late position and somthing tricky comes down and everyone seems scared you can semi bluff in late ... however in early position representing an ace, king, queen or jack etc is very very risky

also on turn & river if your on some kind of draw which would be worth staying in for if checked etc - but dont pay for long shots

in early position with small Pocket pairs (66 down) you really can benefit from knowing / guessing what the button / late position players are likely to do

are they going to raise 4xBB out of habit ?

are they already fighting over control with x y & z ?

do they auto raise 2x 3x BB on the button with anything ?

these things all help save on marginal hands in marginal situations (ie. early position)

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

[EllaGrace]

I forgot to mention that if I check here, I have reason to believe that the sb monster chipstack would put me all in, no matter what the flop just to gain my 200 dollar blind, as it as been his MO. He got his monster chip stack by going all in with A-3 suited and getting a set, K-6 gets the flush, etc. Just a lucky bully. But most of the table is folding since they don't want an allin showdown.

So just to tell you guys what happened. I checked, flop came 447 rainbow. He pushes allin with k-2 I call. He hits his K on the river.

I knew it wasn't a good call. But i sensed he hit nothing, but was calling with a high card, whereas I had a made hand. We were 5 from the money in the tourney. I however only had 3,200 in chips, which would be pretty short stacked come final table,

It was a gambling decision, It didn't pay off.

But the question is: I read him correctly, I had a chance to double it up. In my estimation I had to make it through the turn and the river. So still a bad call?

[jacks_off4me]

do you remember his nickname? was it "aagtaa" ROFLOL

But seriously i often ask myself in your position these questions: "can i make it to the bubble without risking all my chips", "if i push now, will everyone fold", "do i want to get a call here or i dont" and in your specific situation i'd probably ask myself if "doubling up will change my position in order to continue the tournament?'....

because in your situation you DID make the RIGHT MOVE and just got unlucky, but wouldnt you be in exact same spot even if you did double up on him, and isn't it better to try and bubble this time?....

Jacks

[luzipher]

Ian "The Razor" Fraser ( A GOOD UK pro Poker Player) has said in public (TV) that in a simulated computer test he did, 66 hits the flop more than ANY OTHER pocket pair!

Can be a good pro player, but his comment only shows that knows anything about probability.
In a computer test any pair could be the "pair" that hits the flop more than ANY OTHER.
So?
ALL POCKETS have the same chance to hit the flop, 66 hasn't nothing special.

[gott1rott]

When I have less than 10 blinds I use short stack strategy. Basically I am pushing with J8 or better and any suited connectors. Sometimes I will make exceptions depending on how certain people are playing and position in the tournament but if everyone limps I am all in. In any case, I am not going to just raise half my stack preflop. It is all in or fold when under 10 blinds.

[EllaGrace]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I cringed when I saw those in my bb bc I knew i would probably be put to the test i was with just me and monster in the hand.

I guess the better question to ask would be:

When your 66 does not hit on the flop but you know your oppenent Mr. Bigstack all inner also did not hit. Do you go all in with your marginal, albeit made hand?

Or do you check it and fold when he raises?