Carbon takes $3500 from player!!!

[nateogreato]

I am so appauled by what is happening to my friend that I am posting it here and everywhere I can think of.

I decided to write something here becasue I'm not sure what else can be done. If poker sites demonstrate deviant behavior, it is our duty as those who fund them to do something about it. Personally, I am considdering taking my money and discontinuing play on carbon until they make this right.

So what's my beef? It started at Chrismas time when many players who racked up the comp points required to get the big prizes (like the trip to WSOP) were stripped of their points. Carbon never explained what happened here and I dissmissed it as sour grapes.

Recently a good friend of mine had her account frozen for no reason other than that she was on her way to the big $1000 comp points prize and 1st place on the sng leader board (worth $2000). Her account has been frozen for 5 days and she is barely ahead of 3rd now. Carbon refuses to tell her the issue or remedy it.

My understanding is they plan to harrass her until she has no chance of winning the big comp point prizes then release her account admitting they found no issues.

This is all justified by the fine print "Carbon's decitions are final" and it is preposterous. I am voting with my wallet and giving money to other sites until carbon makes reparations to my friend.

Note: I have won over $5000 net from carbon's MTTs and promotions and have paid over $2000 in fees/rake to carbon.

Please do what you can to challenge carbon on their wrong doing.

[nateogreato]

I know a bit about this. Carbon ran a promotion in December where you had to gain as many comp points as possible in order to release cash prizes.

Some players multi-tabled virtually all day on cash games to rack up massive amounts of comp points. They stood to gain up to $12,000 if they hit the highest level of points.

The promotion ended and Carbon withheld thousands of dollars from certain players, accusing them of 'soft-playing' each other on limit holdem tables - ie. racking up comp points without playing poker competitively.
Carbon basically accused these players of being cheats and pointed to the company's terms and conditions saying they had the right to freeze player accounts and withhold promotion cash.

These players were understandably aggrieved, denied cheating in any form and said it was unethical for Carbon to take this action once the December promotion was over.

If it was aware of 'soft-play' during the promotion, why not halt it there and then instead of letting these players contribute big sums of money in rake and then take unilateral action?

Last week - halfway through a March comp point promotion - Carbon downgraded the points awarded at some low limit tables from three to one per raked hand.

This made the goals set in the promotion instantly three times harder to attain for players at these tables.

Again Carbon accused players of cheating and soft play in order to gain the points necessary to release promotion prizes. It said certain players would be contacted and action taken against them.

I also am appalled by Carbon's behaviour, accusing players who have been loyal to the site of collusion and using their placemen in the Carbon players forum to back the accusations of cheating.

[nateogreato]

It's nice to see someone with the courage to discuss what is really happening.

Before I go further I'd like to say that I have been wronged in no way. Carbon has never taken any money from me. I paid most of my fees to carbon long before I ever started winning the big prizes and promotional moneys. In fact this month I chose not to play 16+ hours a day to make $5 an hour off this promotion.

However, I know for a fact that they are stealing from my friend. Perhaps it's because she is bright and made the most of promotions before she demonstrated herself a profitable loser. She played long and hard for 10 days and was about to take 1st on the leaderboard. She was well on her way to getting at least 150000 comp points for an extra $500 to $1500 bonus.

If by some miracle they quit messing with her and release her account in the next 2 hours she's still out almost 20% of her playing time this month. There is no way possible she can make the big prize of $1000 or most likely even the $500 becasue they did this to her. Those prizes cost carbon nothing if they find an excuse not to pay them as they are personal rewards and available to each player.

They won't even tell her what she's been accused of - or if she's been accused of anything at all. This is diseption in the purest sence. Carbon presents what appear to be the finest awards on the internet and takes them away from the people who win them least profitably.

I too was sceptical. Now I'm just appauled. As for why not mention her name... she asked me not to. She's like what's a few thousand dollars, I'll win it on another site. And she will. But that does not make this right.

Respectfully yours,

Nateo

[nateogreato]

also have not lost out personally because of this. But around 15 people were accused of cheating and had up to $12,000 each withheld from them over the Christmas promo.

Some were distraught and complained of unfairness on the Carbon players forum - where they had an awful lot of mud slung at them by the 'moderators'.

At least one player threatened to post about Carbon's actions on major poker forums in an attempt to shame the company into paying out cash he felt he deserved. Another player was desperate to find an industry regulator she could complain to.

Neither of these players has appeared to play on Carbon or entered the forum recently so I presume they are either still contesting their cases or their claims were settled on the quiet.

In the March promo - where the comp points for certain tables were slashed from three to one without notice and certain players again branded cheats - it is clearly a case of 'moving the goalposts during the game'.

Carbon's management appear to be reactionary clowns who panic when they are faced with paying out more than they budgeted for and throw up the smokescreen of cheating so they can do what they please.

In the March promo - where the comp points for certain tables were slashed from three to one without notice and certain players again branded cheats - it is clearly a case of 'moving the goalposts during the game'.

Carbon's management appear to be reactionary clowns who panic when they are faced with paying out more than they budgeted for and throw up the smokescreen of cheating so they can do what they please.

[nateogreato]

Well I figured out carbon's excuse. I guess, somewhere deap in carbon's user agreement, there's a clause that says your husband/family can never play for you. Well my friend admitted that an uncle played for her and carbon has used that to justify stealing over $3500 from her.

She didn't know about the rule and she has appologized. I will never play on carbon again for as long as I live. What greedy a#$&#@!.

I wonder if this is a problem for people who don't win a lot of money?

Have you ever played for a friend? What about staking someone, is that ok? And what about railbirds who advise you on how to play?

I guess at some level these are all form of collution. Don't leave much money in a carbon account if you plan on keeping it.

[nateogreato]

There was another one where she cried. This one just upset her:

CS Abby: Hello! How may I assist you?
Luckylucy2009: my next course of action has been to have my friend post what you are doing to me on 6 different web sites'
Luckylucy2009: He will continue to do this until you reslove this matter and return my account to me
Luckylucy2009: thank you
CS Abby: Alright I understand that.
Luckylucy2009: with what you did at christmas and this you willl lose business
Luckylucy2009: and I will do my best to make sure you get justice for your greeed
Luckylucy2009: alternatively
Luckylucy2009: please do the right thing and release my account and pay your debts instead of making weasly excuses not to do so
CS Abby: I understand your disappointment ma'am and your concern has been relayed to the proper department, we are also waiting for their response so that we can reinstate your account.
Luckylucy2009: I am am personally sorry for you that you must work for such a company as this
Luckylucy2009: 6 days is greedy, there is no excuse
CS Abby: I know that ma'am and you have my apology for this. Hopefully our cashier will respond to this the soonest possible time.
CS Abby: Also, could you please provide us who played your account with IP address from UK?
CS Abby: Also, could you please provide us who played your account with IP address from UK?
Luckylucy2009: no
Luckylucy2009: I ahve been cooperative enough
Luckylucy2009: youa re being greedy
Luckylucy2009: and it is your right to steal my money
Luckylucy2009: I can't stop you
CS Abby: Unfortunately I really need your cooperation for this one so that Ill note this to our fraud for followup
Luckylucy2009: I will say that I am sorry I did not mean to make an error
Luckylucy2009: you robbed me
Luckylucy2009: tell me how I'm going to get the other $3500 you owe me and I'll help you any way I can
CS Abby: Just give us a simple explanation why your IP address jumped from US to UK so that we can verify this and end this issue at once.
Luckylucy2009: I did
Luckylucy2009: my uncle played for me
Luckylucy2009: unlock the account
CS Abby: So your uncle is from UK and you are in US?
Luckylucy2009: no he's in the UK
Luckylucy2009: or he was
bestplayereverp: Luckylucy2009: no crime was committed
CS Abby: Okay thank you for confirming.
Luckylucy2009: fix it
Luckylucy2009: do you feel justified
CS Abby: I will note this all and followup your concern to them. Rest assure that this will be prioritized.
Luckylucy2009: 6 days....
Luckylucy2009: I am not assured
Luckylucy2009: so what now
Luckylucy2009: you found an error I made and now you're justified and happy?
Luckylucy2009: I will continue to ask my friends to blog
Luckylucy2009: I have a lot of friends

[aitchy83]

wow what a bunch of crooks thats unreal
i let my girlfriend play on my account all the time
i dont have much money in my account but thats
unreal they would do something like this
i knew they were greedy but wtf
i hope you friend gets her money back
and hope she see's sense and tells carbon to stick there
account
from what i have read this is not the first time it has happened
and if we as poker players don't contest this then it will
definetly keep happening

[bucnright]

A link to this post was posted on one of my forums just wanted to respond here also.

Letting your girlfriend play a couple hands or a game is not the big issue.

As for me I agree this person tried to cheat the system. Her Uncle played so she would earn comp points. I can not play 24 hours a day, but I could fine two or three other players that could play the times I would not be able to play. This gives the person thats playing the honest way a disadvantage to those have several players playing on one account. There is no way I by myself could earn as many comp points as two players playing 12 hour shifts.

Now carbon did ask her why an IP address from UK was using her account. Carbon would be alright with that if a player was on vacation in another country. They might ask for some type of verification.

CS Abby: Just give us a simple explanation why your IP address jumped from US to UK so that we can verify this and end this issue at once.
Luckylucy2009: I did
Luckylucy2009: my uncle played for me



Here is a copy of Carbon's rules.

Disclosure to Third Parties.
You agree to keep your Account secret and confidential and to not allow anyone else to use it. If you intentionally or unintentionally, directly or indirectly, disclose your Account Name and password to another person, and such disclosure results in a third party participating in the Games using your Account Name and password, such participation shall be valid, and you will not be refunded any resulting losses at carbon.com, regardless of whether or not the third party had your consent or not. The Company shall not be required to maintain Account Names or passwords if you misplace, forget, lose, or are otherwise unable to enter Carbon.com because of anything other than the Company's error.

[scrawnybob]

hi

ok I may well be able to get Carbon Poker rep to post here - to clarify things

but from what I've read ... and taking things on face value here are my thoughts
(people might not like it but there we go)

if someone is getting other players to play on their accounts to get in more playing time ... clearly that is bending the rules - you cant accidently encourage your uncle to play a load of hours - your clearly trying to bend the rules to clear a bonus ...

IMHO the bonuses / rake races etc will have already been calculated to be do-able at a certain stake or higher ... getting several people to grind out 24hrs a day or an unatural number of hours at lower stakes IS bending the rules ... and IMHO on that basis Carbon are right NOT to pay out the bonus ... again that is a bonus ... they havent stolen ANYTHING from your friend ... they have just withheld a bonus or similar that wasnt earnt legitimately

ALL SITES have a one player ONE account per ONE household rule - to avoid exactly this sort of bonus abuse

if the IP jumped to Uncles then thats even more obviously bonus abuse / account abuse

Sorry but Seriously its not rocket science - try to game the sites or their bonuses - and they will keep THEIR money and you wont get the bonus - its basically fraud if your getting people to play your account 24/7

however I dont think any site are going to close an account if your GF or BF plays for 30 mins now and again because you want to teach them ... but that is a world appart from what your friend is moaning about

I really really really HATE it when people post negative cr*p about sites ... any sites that doesnt stand up ... and turns out to be a legitmate reason to close an account - ie. abuse of an account

cheers scrawnybob

[natsdad]

Quality post scrawnybob. I mod at the carbon/pdc forum and you have been fed a garbled, barely coherent rant about various promotions and the suspension of an account. I'm not employed by Carbon, or in any way in their pocket, but i too hate it when disgruntled players start throwing ridiculous accusations about.

The reference to moderators slinging mud is pure fabrication. After a couple of the players who had bonuses denied to them posted in the forum there was a mixed response. Some players felt that the ones whose accounts were under scrutiny had no reason to feel hard done by as they had blatantly abused rules and in some cases admittedas much in the forum.

Now it seems to me that this case has little or nothing to do with those players and their troubles with previous promotions, but that helped pad out the story didn't it.

This case is obviously something the fraud department are looking into and i dare say when they have done so they will be in touch with the player concerned.

But personally i'm glad that if someone who's IP address is on the other side of the Atlantic starts playing my account then the fraud team get onto it early and try to find out what's going on.