Pokerstars revenge!

[bingcrosby1234]

I know people are tired of "rigged" threads and i can't tell you either way, but my trust of online poker declines each week. I listen and read other people's threads and some have legitimate gripes. Man, the stuff they discuss tends to happen to me after I read them. I cashed out on Pstars...a bunch of money....and now I can't win a $2 sng. I won't see a good hand for an hour, but once I get say, Ak, it is against AA or KK. Or my aces get cracked most of the time against far less superior starting hands. If you complain on the chat board, then you seem to be punished thereafter to get you out of the game. I always start off strong, then my hands collapse more than half way through. Maybe, it's all in my mind, but I am really close to giving up on all of it. I closed every account except FT and Pstars. If my luck doesn't change soon, I think I will spend my money in the local casino. More fun anyway, it's just online is convenient. I can careless who looks on this thread as negative, but I know I feel this way about it and my observations are clear as day....Boy, I hope Obama legalizes poker because I would trust American companies many times over than these foreign sites...Go legaiization!!

[ND1991]

You can definitely have good runs and bad runs in Poker. I have read a lot on variance lately and decided to go to a strict bankroll management plan (only exception will be closed games where I know the people).

The last few live games I have seen would have been lambasted as fixed if they had happened online. The two I remember the most clearly was A high flush and K high flush both losing to a rivered boat. And the KK vs. KK vs. AA with KKs splitting on a king high straight. Can you imagine the outcry online if this happened?

Online you just see so many more hands, and if you are a good/above average player, your chips SHOULD be in good, so more of your beats SHOULD be drawouts/suckouts/bad beats whatever you choose to call them.

Also, definitely analyze your bad beats and look for patterns. I know one of my leaks was over-valuing middle pocket pairs on 9-man and 10-man tables. I still play them very hard on a 6-man table, but have learned to slow down on the full tables.

Finally, do the math. Sure these sites could set up poker bots and rig the hands and the tournaments and do it in such a way as to not get caught (except by some very observant people - which there are playing). OR they could set up a legit site, deal a million hands a day and take a small rake and fees and mkae guaranteed easy money with their only barrier to more profit is traffic to the site.

I do not doubt that it could be done, just not sure it would be good business. I have never taken the time to actually look back through the hand history and see how many hands held up. Always remember two things about online poker: 1) you see a lot more hands, and 2) bad beats and suckouts are remembered, all the hands that play out as they are suppose to fade quickly.

Good luck at the tables.

[Alnoble]

If you play enough the percentages do work I have had run of not being able to win anything then yesterday I had a 4th place for $8.78 and today a 7th in a 4$ 180 SNG for $25.20. Not a lot of money I know but I'm not playing to make a living..... for now!

Also I keep seeing people say they are feb up with thier aces being cracked so I looked backat my own hand histories.

Out of 14185 hands dealt to me I've played AA 60 times and won 53 times and lost 7. That in percentage terms is 88% winners.

Trouble is 4 of the losing hands knocked me out of tournaments the last one being last Friday when I went out 2 off the money.

Keep reading the advice here and you will turn it around. I know I'm playing better from reading these forums, just not quite enough yet to win consistantly.

Al

[ND1991]

Decided to look up my highest Win % hands, and the top ten out of 107,285 hands are:

AA (89.82)
KK (81.25) - negative 41,363 - seems I do not lay these down well LOL
QQ (78.21)
JJ (77.51)
TT (72.91)
AKo (68.10)
AQs (66.77)
AKs (65.82)
AJs (63.87) - positive 57,313
99 (63.29)

And the top ten Amount Won hands are:

AA (453,460)
AKo (414,204)
QQ (265,782)
AQo (188,816) - win % of 63.05
JJ (173,659)
TT (157,868)
AJo (153,624) - win % of 56.54
99 (149,465)
AKs (132,893)
AQs (132,844)

So in the end, the hands you would expect to win with, well they win LOL.

Good luck at the tables.

[Poker Orifice]

I know people are tired of "rigged" threads and i can't tell you either way, but my trust of online poker declines each week. I listen and read other people's threads and some have legitimate gripes. Man, the stuff they discuss tends to happen to me after I read them. I cashed out on Pstars...a bunch of money....and now I can't win a $2 sng. I won't see a good hand for an hour, but once I get say, Ak, it is against AA or KK. Or my aces get cracked most of the time against far less superior starting hands. If you complain on the chat board, then you seem to be punished thereafter to get you out of the game. I always start off strong, then my hands collapse more than half way through. Maybe, it's all in my mind, but I am really close to giving up on all of it. I closed every account except FT and Pstars. If my luck doesn't change soon, I think I will spend my money in the local casino. More fun anyway, it's just online is convenient. I can careless who looks on this thread as negative, but I know I feel this way about it and my observations are clear as day....Boy, I hope Obama legalizes poker because I would trust American companies many times over than these foreign sites...Go legaiization!!

If you're having to rely on luck.... I'd suggest withdrawling all funds from online poker sites.
As far as the 'conspiracy' beliefs go.... hmm... funny how I don't hear those on the MTT leaderboard saying the same sort of thing... or the guys who are regularly building bankrolls on 100 & 200NL (or even the newer players who are grinding it out on 10NL and building themselves poker bankrolls).
10NL online is comparable to 100NL live. Play at higher limits online far exceeds live play of similiar buyin level. Play at super micro buyins, 'tourney-style' (SNG &/or MTT) is loose & bad.... badbeats, etc. are to be expected. Anyone who's been playing online for awhile knows & accepts this. The games are beatable..... one needs to make the necessary adjustments to find their niche to do so.

[Poker Orifice]

If you play enough the percentages do work I have had run of not being able to win anything then yesterday I had a 4th place for $8.78 and today a 7th in a 4$ 180 SNG for $25.20. Not a lot of money I know but I'm not playing to make a living..... for now!

Also I keep seeing people say they are feb up with thier aces being cracked so I looked backat my own hand histories.

Out of 14185 hands dealt to me I've played AA 60 times and won 53 times and lost 7. That in percentage terms is 88% winners.

Trouble is 4 of the losing hands knocked me out of tournaments the last one being last Friday when I went out 2 off the money.

Keep reading the advice here and you will turn it around. I know I'm playing better from reading these forums, just not quite enough yet to win consistantly.

Al

^^ great post and I like the percentages you've provided here for AA... winning 88% of the time... nice!! For sure when you're dealt the tourney ending blow by having your AA cracked, this memory will no doubt cloud one's perception of how often their AA really hold up (just winning the blinds with AA probably doesn't stay in one's memory for too long, lol).

Way to go on the recent cashes in the 180's. Be prepared for long dry spells in those multi-table SNG's.. it is the nature of the game (20 games with no cashes is not uncommon). The occassional deep cash will make up for it.
Tip for ya when playing those games.... once your stack is down to 13-22bb's, be looking to resteal (come over the top of a LP raiser... one who has been raising often to steal the blinds and just shove it allin... should have some fold equity and will pick yourself up a nice pot,... often better to try to do this as opposed to just stealing the blinds on a stack of that size.... as often you will get called & then floated on the flop and if you miss the flop but then fire a c-bet, your stack will then be in big trouble). Also, when your stack is down to ~ resteal size, you actually have to tighten up your opening range when first in to the pot - - you really only want to open with a hand that you're willing to go all the way with as SS's will be shoving back on you &/or if you're called you don't have enough chips to c-bet/fold.

GL on the tables!!

[PokerMagpie]

Yeah, taking losses and handling defeat is trying. I am still trying to deal with some messy post flop issues in my own cash game. And I have sites I do and don;t like, but not for the reasons outlined in the OP. I think PokerStars is actually the easiest place to play poker online, followed by Merge Network.

I always try to acknowledge and remember improbable things that happen to my benefit to balance out the bad beats. I also learnt to tell the difference between me ignoring certain clues to get out of a hand, vs. me being genuinely drawn out on. As aggressive as I build pots sometimes, it actually pays off some people - trying to get better post flop control, mind you - but even in other situations, I can actually understand why some people play what they play. In a few cases, people who draw out on me did the same thing I would have done with the same cards.

Mind you, I am going through a bit of tilt as I run all over the internet trying to find post flop strategy for limit cash games. I finally found something earlier today, and will apply that. I have lost so much money playing at 2c/4c and 5c/10c. Even so, I still remember the one time a few days ago when I took down a 25 BB pot with a very weak hand. I daresay there are occasions where everyone has done something like that, or barely got saved by a river card - hell, I almost ran out of money on PokerStars twice today, only to get saved by the river.... "luck" or variance is a two way street, really.

[andy334]

A few months ago I won around $1200 on PokerStars having read up a bit on where my game was going wrong. Great I thought - At least I know where I am going wrong.

Since then, by applying the same strategy, I have won nothing and found myself having to add to my bank roll. I now have a minus ROI of around 30% on $3K.

Anyway, having donated to my cause recently from my bank account (quite a lot I may add), I find that tonight I win $100 in a $3.30 tourney playing the same strategy. It just seems to be funny how I can play winnings and lose the lot but play my bank account and manage to keep getting the odd win - just enough to keep me going?

I dont know and I am sick of trying to work it out.

But regarding Pocket Aces - isnt it funny how you can win all the ones with a pot of 100 yet lose all the ones with a pot of 50K+. When working out stats in future I would like to see chips won versus chips lost rather than "I won 88% of my pocket Aces played". Thats great unless the stats actually read "Pocket Aces played - won 88% and won 20K chips with them but lost 250K chips on the other 12%" - wouldnt that be a tad more interesting to know?

How many of those pocket Aces really affected the outcome of a game? More of the 12% than the 88% I bet.

As for collapsing half way through.... A good strategy for Jokerstars - If you are up after the first hour - SIT OUT for the next hour. Because you are not going to hit anything - and if you are lucky enough to hit something then bet your bottom dollar the guy going all in with crap pre-flop is somehow, unbelieveably, amazingly, going to rape you on the river.

Personally - I dont think your post is negative - just showing the frustration that most of us who post (and don't work for Jokerstars) feel.

Although my game has improved a lot recently my stats haven't and sometimes I have to sit and look at the other guys winning hand and think - No way on earth you played with that. But try and engage them in polite conversation afterwards and you always seem to draw a blank, even when still in and saying "Nice Hand". The word BOT does spring to mind particularly on JokerStars.

PS - go to the casino

[kingmotan]

I promised myself I won't post in any of these threads but I can't help it.
So Andy, for online poker to exist there has to be winning players and losing players.
You my friend are a losing player. This can be caused by your playing skill or your mentality: "Everyone is cheating on me/ he is a bot/ I have Aces, should I fold!? This site is so rigged especially in these 3$buyins" My advice would be.. Quit!! If you can't be a winning player in the long term no point in donating your bank account. I know, you like poker. Then you might want to read a few books, see some video training, why not even get a coach for a few sessions. Pokerstars is rigged? Go play on FT, AP, UB, CAKE, BO, CARBON, PKR, wherever you feel you won't be cheated. But first you have to change that mentality.

P.S. - Go to school.

[Alnoble]

But regarding Pocket Aces - isnt it funny how you can win all the ones with a pot of 100 yet lose all the ones with a pot of 50K+. When working out stats in future I would like to see chips won versus chips lost rather than "I won 88% of my pocket Aces played". Thats great unless the stats actually read "Pocket Aces played - won 88% and won 20K chips with them but lost 250K chips on the other 12%" - wouldnt that be a tad more interesting to know?

How much you win with pocket Aces depends on what stage in the tournement you are. You could win 1,000,000+ on a final table which would look great but in terms of the big blind it may only be 4BB. Where as early on 2000 could be 100BB Since 1st July my net chips won with AA is 126,000. I average 20BB when I win with AAs

Al