Any USA players worried?

[ND1991]

So all the news lately has me wondering.

1) FBI arresting presidents of poker sites if they fly the USA? huh?
2) Rumors that US Governement is going to try and seize all $$ in USA players accounts? huh?
3) Legislation? This one has been around more and covered more openly.

So my questions are....

A) Should I be worried?

B) Should I be making withdraws?

Thanks in advance for any insight or opinions.

[TeeKae]

I'm worried. In the political season we were all convinced that the change would be good for US online gamblers. Today there is no chance that the gambling act will be overturned anytime soon. In fact the new justice department is more aggressive than the prior in seizing funds. The real teeth of the law kicks in in December. These are not the best of times.

[villaridge]

dont know where u get your news.

I think a VP of party poker got arrested some years ago, the case has been settled, by party poker paying a fine.

The fbi does sporadically sieze obvious poker site bank accounts used in the USA to pay people. Bodog , pokerstars, and fulltilt, then found other ways to pay their obligations and all were paid. the amount siezed is somewhere in the $50 million range, still small compared to the real volume.

Poker legislation is on a track to be legalized, the PPA and Rep Barney Frank are pushing for legalization and taxation of poker in Congress, and just the other day a group of Senators urged Justice to hold of on the implementation of the UIEGA set to take effect Dec. 1st.

If you have your money in some small site nobody ever heard of, sure take it and run. Got your money at a reputable site, relax. It will all work out.

[ND1991]

So PokerStars and FullTilt are fine/reputable.

What about:

Carbon
Cake
Doyles Room
BoDog

Thanks!

[villaridge]

carbon and cake (doyles is cake). and Bodog all seem stable to me. There are some skins of cake and Merge that I hear have cash out problems, bodog is standalone and met its sieazed check issues with payments,''

some of the merge and cake skins are flaky tho. I don't wanna list them, as it's just my opinion.

[theoryz]

Yep, I havent heard any news on my bankroll getting siezed, but I wouldnt put it past those thieving bastards to come steal my 14 dollars while im sleeping!

Really though it would be a really big upset not to be able to play from the privacy of your own home. I mean I LOVE the casino and the whole element behind it, but somtimes I like being able to brush my teeth, smoke outta the hookah or be totally naked when I play.

The government just wants more money in their pockets.

[scrawnybob]

hi

ok just to dispell a few myths / misunderstandings ... I'll try to pick on as many things in the thread as I can - I cannot offer legal advice but this is a very short summary of what I can gather is the prevailing legal opinion on this generall ;-)

the important thing to remember is dont panic - most of the people who do - have read something written by someone who hasnt done any research or looked everywhere and kept on top of things - and half the things on the net are old news or half assed assumptions

SO here goes ...

online poker in the US as a whole is NOT illegal


the UIGEA (Unlawful Internet Gaming Enforcement Act) is NOT a ban on online poker, it does NOT make PLAYING poker illegal ... the only thing it does is make the banks responsible for NOT processing gambling transactions

most importantly the UIGEA specifically and explicitly says it is NOT able to do anything to players at all

The UIGEA was sneaked in on the back of the Safe Ports Act - the UIGEA is a very weak bill even if its an irritating way to hamper the online businesses

The US is contravention of WTO (World Trade Organisation) laws and should have to drop the UIGEA and comply or pay massive fines to the WTO for closing out trading nations that are entitled to offer online gaming to the world including the US

poker MAY however be specifically outlawed in some states (again still NOT under the wire act or UIEGA but individual state gaming laws)

The Wire Act in most legals opinions does NOT include games like poker involving far more skill than luck - and therefore should not be used to stop poker but it has been tried .. again this law is aimed at illegal phone bookmakers NOT poker players

the arrests of online sportsbook operator was a long time ago and was because they ran an offshore sportsbook - this was before the UIGEA

The partypoker deal didnt involve anyone getting locked up - its a bit bizzarre and somewhat contraversal in the industry but they made a payment to clear up outstanding issues from the past ... its widely held as party trying to pave the way to getting back into the US IF the new legislation is little more than selective legalising to suit onshore US business ...

now before all you Amercian players get all patriotic and think that woudl be a good idea - this would mean a much smaller number of sites - all run by US casinos and would allow them to push margins massively up - and cost you players more ... it would also split traffic to US and non US even more so IMHO this is a VERY BAD IDEA

read more here ...

Will US poker regulation respect the global market or create a protectionist closed shop

&

Will PokerStars Buy Las Vegas ?

now to recent events ...

There are 2 main proposed bills to regulate online poker / online gaming - there are pro's and con's to both but importantly they both require for the UIGEA to be repealled

There are strong voices to get the UIGEA postponed -

Its theoretically due to be enforced in December 2009 (but its been having a negative effect on banking and processing for a good year or so)

the seized funds from payment processors recently - I am led to believe that the feds havent got a hope in hell of keeping the money or making it stick ... basically they used old laws to seize and from what I can gather they themselves werent please someone went off half cocked - so even the FEDS cant agree with each other on this

again the point is players money is safe in the poker room - just give a bit of thought to your payment processor and have a couple of options for yourself if your a US player.

cheers scrawnybob

[scrawnybob]

hi

to answer the question ...

which sites are reputable ?

short answer is most of them - certainly far more than just pokerstars and fulltilt

there are a couple of things to bear in mind - some sites are

Standalone Sites

pokerstars, fulltilt, PKR.com, partypoker, Bodog, betfair, pacific poker & Everest

then there are the networks and skins on those networks

Reliable Networks - Biggest / Most Established sites on network

iPoker Network - Titan Poker, Willam Hill, Blue Square

OnGame Network - RedKings Poker, Tower Gaming & Bwin

IPN / Boss - PokerHeaven, Virgin Poker

Cake Poker Network - Cake poker, DoylesRoom

Microgaming - Ladbrokes

Merge Gaming - Carbon, Aced

Action Gaming - Action Poker

most importantly some networks are better than others and some sites on networks are better than others ... some networks arent so consistent on being the ones holding all the players money and some networks allow some of the skins to hold their own deposits ... This IMHO is where the problems can start ...

My advice is this - stick to the networks above and concentrate on the strongest most established sites on those networks and you wont go wrong

there are alot of new sites on Merge and Cake for example now I'm NOT saying any of them are bad - there not BUT some of them are going to develop into great sites on great skins
and some are likely to not be the most successful

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

PS. just realised Ive put up all sites so some are closed to US players - but this info is helpful to non US players also

[xxmommaxx]

Thanks for all the info Bob. I never know what to believe about online US poker.

[rgchan]

Good info about different sites and platforms.I feel sorry for US players and worry too.Itech sukks ever since the US banning.The American Gov,t wants its piece of the action with all that money out there.They already get you at the casino,s by taxing winnings so they want the internet $$$ too. Canadian Casino,s do not tax any winnings.Canadian lotteries do not tax any million dollar winnings unlike US lotteries.But i watch closely because if the US takes some action it could happen in Canada too like when Neteller cut out our services.
Rg