Looking back Helps you improve ?

[Alnoble]

At the tim of this hand I thought what a donk and what a bad beat on me.. But reviewing the hand was the villian realy a villian.

You decide first then I add my own view after I replayed the hand the next day.

PokerStars 25FPP Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (250/500)
Table '286076826 14' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: ***3 (9583 in chips)
Seat 2: ***b (10235 in chips)
Seat 3: Villian? (7920 in chips)
Seat 4: ***5 (7179 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero (9955 in chips)
Seat 6: ***1 (14735 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: ***N (29755 in chips)
Seat 8: ***t (14920 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: ***1 (4434 in chips)
All: post the ante 60

Hero: posts small blind 250
***1: posts big blind 500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Kd Ac]
***N: calls 500
***t: folds
***1: calls 500
***3: folds
***b: folds
villian?: calls 500
***5: folds
Hero: raises 1500 to 2000
***1: folds
***N: calls 1500
***1: calls 1500
villian?: calls 1500
*** FLOP *** [8d 9c Ad]
Hero: bets 7895 and is all-in
***N: folds
***1: folds
villian?: calls 5860 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (2035) returned to Hero
*** TURN *** [8d 9c Ad] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [8d 9c Ad 9s] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [Kd Ac] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
villian?: shows [Jd 9d] (a full house, Nines full of Jacks)
villian? collected 20760 from pot

[ND1991]

Ok here is what I see.

You were completely OOP with a strong opening hand with a lot of limpers.

"Mistake 1" your raise was too small with so many in hand. It provided you very little info. Since after the first caller the pot odds just got better and better for every player.

*** FLOP *** [8d 9c Ad]

Once again you are OOP.

"Mistake 2" you push all-in with a hand that easily behind. A8, A9, 88, 99 and you are in bad shape. 89, 67, 7T, TJ, XdXd are probably calling you (especially since you are in an FPP tournament). And anyone with a diamond and straight card may decide to gamble (although I would say these people are nuts).

The real reason the push here is a mistake, is you have gvien yourself no chance to gracefully exit the hand if behind. I think you thought who would want to risk their tournament life. I would view it as why wouldn't I risk with a solid draw since I know I will double up. A teaser bet would possibly have been a better play to see who pushed on you. 88, 99, any two diamonds with flush draw are all probably pushing here.

9dJd falls in the XdXd that would probably call you plus he has extra outs with another 9 or J for the two pair and a runner runner straight draw.

Also, can see you are on level 14, but how close to advancing? It looks like his play he is getting about 3:1 on his call and he has 14 outs (he doesn't know you have a diamond) so he figures he is a favorite at this point by about 3:2. It is almost a must call him for him I would think.

Finally, what was your image, had you been making big post flop bets? Had you shown down any bluffs?

Was his play risky? Yes. Was it a donk move? Absolutely not. Even if you have AA he has 8 outs (8d no good) which makes him a 2:1 dog and he has pot odds to call.

[Alnoble]

That's one of the reasons I try and review hands the next day. I note them in the tournament and then check them.

You have very much hit the nail on the head and my thoughts are similar. The first raise was no where near enough at that table. I was more aggresive than others but fortuanatly only had to show good hands and none of my semi bluffs.

The other thing was I didn't read the flop correctly didn't register the flush draw. so thought the allin would push everyone off the hand. I try not to go to the river if I can help it in these fpp games to avoid suck outs.

Thank you for your input most intresting.

End result I learnt a little bit more but now need to remember it next time.

[ND1991]

No problem at all. I enjoy learning from others mistakes rather than my own. It costs me less LOL. Best of luck at the tables.

[Poker Orifice]

Honestly there's really nothing wrong at all with putting in the pile preflop here.. you're up against 14effective bb' stack and another w <10.
Not saying you made a mistake.... for your opponents to call here to a raise of his size is a HUGE Error on their part (unless pehaps 'they' were out of position & were planning on pulling a stop'ngo or something).

On the flop, we're NEVER folding here...EVER!!! To suggest we're beaten by A8 hands etc.,... come on.. if they're THAT BAD then yay.. 'gg' let them win the hand (who'd be seriously L/calling with a range that included A8 when it's for 1/4to1/3 of their stack? Incidentally it's usually & almost always wrong to be flatcalling a preflop raise for 1/3 of one's stack).
On some flops & vs. some players (most in moderately higher buyins),I'd actually prefer check-raising allin.(not on this flop though)... In this spot here a shove is clearly the best play.

Also as far as shoving to have players on a flush draw fold < this is bad thinking imo. You want them to call but w/o proper odds (here bet-sizing isn't an issue cuz we're never left with enough behind for a bet on the turn anyways).

[sos_egg_n]

pre flop - As stated raise WAY to small allin OR a raise which pot commits u if called u can fire regardless flop.

Flop - allin as u did. noticed a reply stating u dont know where u are or hands that can beat u.....Strange bcos the hands that can win are minimal if some1 calls a8 / a9 and hits 2 pair then tough luck and same goes if player calls and hits set along with u floppin ace u aint never getting away from it BUT this flop was fairly perfect.


to answer the question i would not for any second this this guy was a donkey u could debate calling j 9 on raise but still nowhere near donkey satus

sos

[Poker Orifice]

I was looking at the wrong player's stack sizes in this thread (the HandHistory is kinda crappy looking - - jumbled & not clearly displayed at all... ugh).

Personally I don't know how folks can say the preflop raise size is 'way too small'.. HERO raises to 4x over two limpers (he has position on). Again.. looking at this hand history grosses me out... I mean it's not clearly laid out at all... and two players have same name?? 1*** & 1*** yuck!

[PLAYFUL1]

NO WAY 2 AVOID ANY SUK OUTS IF THE PLAYERS DONT CARE AND LUV 2 CHASE ESP IF THEY THE CHIPPY LEADER AT THE TABLE... REMEMBE RTHE P.U.T. BY PLAYFUL

[sos_egg_n]

personally i would never raise a 2000(incl ur 500) chip pot a further 1500 hence is to small a raise.

i would either check or raise allin / or pot commited raise anything below that is to small.