Harry Reid trying to get online poker legal

[Logan]

Something I've been wondering about. What does this mean for other parts of the world? Will we not have the oppurtunity to play vs. the 'new' fish of 2012 (or 2014.. depending upon if Fulltilt & others are given licenses to operate in the US by then). Also, for 'the rest of us', I can only imagine how small the field of players will be in the Tournaments with all US players not playing? ????

Wondering the same.

Not really aware what is going on. Is this a "maybe" going to happen thing for US or is a done deal and will not be alloud to play soon?.

As far as I know (from what I've heard), online poker (as we know it) won't be able to survive for much longer than 2-3yrs. anyways (not with the present way it exists).

Could you elaborate more about this?, please.

[Terminal Frost]

Still a maybe. Latest word on the street is that it is not in the tax bill.

Not necessarily a good thing-becoming harder and harder for US players to deposit and/or W/D.

[Dan Abnormal]

Every where Im reading, it seems everyone thinks this is a done deal. So does this bill have to pass before they ban US online poker or can they ban online poker first and then pass a bill. So many people talking about this, that I feel Im sort of in poker limbo as I dont want to put my money on sites and find out 2 days after the fact that you cant even play anymore. So people who understand all this keep posting any important info

[Assistanc3]

It didn't get onto the tax bill which Harry Reid wanted, adding it to another bill helps it get hidden with a specific larger bill. Much like banning online poker got added to the Port Authority Act. I believe the Reid bill has yet to see the Senate floor.

I had replied on another forum that had Lee Jones comments (he is the former card-room manager for PokerStars and currently card-room manager of Cake Poker) basically saying it is good for online poker. Everyone else had agreed, which then followed with my response.


posted Yesterday, 04:01 AM

This is one of the worst things added to a tax bill that I have ever seen.

Not only is this horrible for American poker players who are currently enjoying playing on a poker site they regularly play but for poker players across the world. Tiering off, segregation or protectionism; call it for what it really is. The American government once again showing they are no longer leading the world in policy making.

Lee Jones talks about this trickle down effect that assumes 'should' happen, which I agree it should, but lets be realistic. Since when has big business done this? How much are you paying for your American company made in a foreign land dirt cheap Nike shoes? Looks like the trickle down stopped with NBA pro's making millions of dollars already. Notice car companies are now all of a sudden selling cars for almost half price, did the cost of making them all of a sudden cost half? Of course not, they sell it for what its worth because they are going broke.

I forget the politician who said something like Click a Mouse, Lose Your House, but if the poker site is American or licensed in America you wont?

Or politicians are now gonna vote an agree poker is a skilled game(Why do they get to decide) Remember your 401k, you invested that money with a professional bank/brokerage, how did those skilled investors do with your money. Unemployment in America is 9.8% and those with money are told they are not allowed to invest it in 72vsXX which wins 35%, and portfolio managers will tell you 10% or more is great.
You can log into an itrade website and literally click your house away betting on thousands upon thousands of stocks but not a 52 card deck?

Imagine this.
Say these poker sites start segregating their sites based on YOUR country location (which some are doing already) how are small poker forums ever gonna compete to provide you with those 20-30 forum member tournaments? Kiss your friendly affiliate forum sites good bye and welcome a dawn of the rich getting richer. Google.ca, Google.fr, Google.etc would get much more traffic from players being forced to find sites curtailed to them, so unless forum owners want to buy up each country based url and do sitexurls= a boat load of extra work. Have fun doing your income taxes too.

I believe that if this bill doesn’t pass, we will see the end of online poker in the U.S. as we know it within 2-3 years.

You really believe that? Once upon a time America tried with alcohol, which kills how many a year, health issues, etc. Prohibition lasted 14 years, did the consumption of alcohol stop? No. The American people stood up for their freedom of choice, your really gonna give up your freedom now?

You can get what you want
if any country has proven that, it is the USA

That is my Canadian 2cents
(same in USD, should post this Monday morning when CAD is worth more)
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Not one of the 35,000 plus members of that site has replied.

[scrawnybob]

hi

I have to admit as a non US player and generally I have mixed feelings about the whole thing

as an asside - I DONT think its actually going to get through ... the most likely attachment (or is it attachee) has been and gone & I dont think it will get onto the other couple of possibilities

anyway ... the best thing that could happen (again not likely) is that they just over turn the UIGEA and start again

the fact that its likely to be pinned onto something else (like the UIGEA was) goes against my "British sense of fair play" however as Ive said previously its the predictable carve out nature of the bill trying to keep non US business (that is already established) out of the US market

personally I think that really really stinks and makes the whole American freedom / dream /capitalism / free trade thing a nonsense

I cannot understand how they should be able to make it fly with the WTO etc

prohibition maybe one thing but selective legalisation seems totally well un free trade - which the US signed up to

anyway I best not get into that but IMHO that is disgraceful if they get away with it

on the player segration thing - this was also a bit predictable given this is the way France etc have taken it ...

obviously from a player perspective its a bad thing - the whole point of the bloody internet is its global ... although it looks likely to end up with the United States of China over this

the main thing everyone has to realise is that this was always a likely outcome with landbased interests really wanting their pound of flesh and the govt are ONLY going to be interested in this if they can tax you and the rooms to the max

I think at the very least the games should be kept global and then they tax companies based on licences (for all) and tax players based on current gambling tax ...

if the US govt (and their landbesed casinos) really had a sense of vision then they would want to join the global economy and to promote their brands globally and earn their $'s that way ... the protectionist route is just very last decade

unfortunately I believe in the US you have to pay some sort of income tax based on profits

in the UK the regulation etc has AFAIKS been done much better than all the countries with more of an approval system than illegal and as players we dont pay tax on gambling profit either ...

even our system seems not to be perfect as some established UK gambling companies have gone offshore as our corp tax was deemed too high compared with the other offshore businesses ...

if the US thinks they can ring fence their whole economy and ignore the rest of the world then I think there is also the possibility ...

(and this is my new prediction)

that existing sites that cannot see a way to legitimize themselves asap in the US (by buying into a landbased casino somehow) ... will stay offshore and fight the legality of the protectionist bill IF it gets attached to something

I guess in short somesort of hashed up legalised framework that gets rid of the UIGEA will be better in some ways than what we have but ONLY if its viewed as something to be challenged and overthrown or ignored once it is seen to be uninforcable or more importantly not legal under international law

interesting times I guess

cheers scrawnybob

ps. thankfully while maybe 60% of our visitors to the forum etc are US ... the vast majority of our customers / signups are infact NON US signing up to rooms that are not open to US players. hopefully this means we can ride through whatever happens over the next 18mnths or so ... but a segregated market would make games etc more of a challenge

[Peteyweestro]

I know that if they try to ban poker completely i will still some how find a way to play, like the saying goes " when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"

[Andreh]

As I see those are huge offenses against free will, free trade, economy, and the good globalizing effect of the internet.
Are not those issues being discussed on Tv? Sixty minutes, CNN and the likes?
If someone could get Oprah into online POker Im sure she would do a good show on it defending the nation founders ideals

[Assistanc3]

like the saying goes " when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"

I like that saying

glad to see scrawnybob's reply as many other forums I have read regarding this seems administrators are shying away from replying, either they don't understand how it will effect them or feel it is against the affiliate agreement.

These bills that get in front of the Senate with support of the poker players alliance scare me as a player and someone who enjoys the poker community forums. The PPA have their own agenda for the USA players when what we need is what scrawnybob said "the whole point of the bloody internet is its global" so what we need is for all countries to agree with 1 bill and have revenue sharing.

Seems talking about poker on the news is still taboo as it is still considered gambling, at least in the lame stream media ( you Sarah Palin)

Here's an idea that will never fly, make online poker legal and start taking down land based casino's because of the electricity and water wasted in the desert, add it to an environmental bill. That wont fly because taxing is more important then the environment. Government would rather have money now then leave a future for our children.

[Terminal Frost]

if the US govt (and their landbesed casinos) really had a sense of vision then they would want to join the global economy and to promote their brands globally and earn their $'s that way ... the protectionist route is just very last decade protectionist bill IF it gets attached to something

Here is the biggest, saddest, I'd laugh if I weren't crying so hard bs I have ever seen:

Las Vegas giant Harrah’s entered the online gaming industry this year with their own brand of online casino and poker room.

Harrah’s online endeavors with Caesars Casino and Caesars Poker are only available internationally and not in the USA, but as time will tell the UIGEA gambling ban may be repealed soon and that would give USA players the opportunity to register an account at these two highly respected new sites and support online gaming sites that were born in the USA.

These %$%#$##$ are allowed to have online poker sites that WE can't play.