I am 100% thoroughly convinced: Bodog is filled with cheaters

[PinYin55]

I have had a shaky past with bodog. A LOT of things have happened to me that go way beyond bad beats, but I wont get into that now.

I was playing in a tournament with 5,000 people, and we were down to the last 200.

I went all in.

3 people called.


The last guy? He calls too.


WITH 2 5 OFF SUIT.


Calls FOUR ALL INS with 2 5 OFF SUIT.

The flop?

2 2 5.

Ridiculous. Not only that, he was the CHIP LEADER in the entire tournament.

You dont become the chip leader by making stupid plays like that.

Say what you will, but thats all the proof I needed. Calling 4 all ins with 2-5, then hitting a full house on the flop. And, he's the chip-leader.

Pfft.

I'm over it.

[GypsyTea]

Originally Posted by PinYin55

I have had a shaky past with bodog. A LOT of things have happened to me that go way beyond bad beats, but I wont get into that now.

I was playing in a tournament with 5,000 people, and we were down to the last 200.

I went all in.

3 people called.


The last guy? He calls too.


WITH 2 5 OFF SUIT.


Calls FOUR ALL INS with 2 5 OFF SUIT.

The flop?

2 2 5.

Ridiculous. Not only that, he was the CHIP LEADER in the entire tournament.

You dont become the chip leader by making stupid plays like that.

Say what you will, but thats all the proof I needed. Calling 4 all ins with 2-5, then hitting a full house on the flop. And, he's the chip-leader.

Pfft.

I'm over it.

Hi.
No Comment from me on the above because what you are saying is at this time a "little sketchy".

This hand you didnt like, Please will you post in here the hand histroy, and let me look at it.

I am not saying I can help but it my be a good learning tool for all of the forum, There are a lot of good players in here who may be able to ease your mind over this hand or hands.

This is not a critical observation of you or your post, a lot of folks post materal in this vain, and dont quite understand potodds and why a player with junk called in a late position.

Anyway the hand sounds of interest. Over to you.

Have a nice day

GT

[GypsyTea]

O and please post the tournament pay out structure as well the buyin details.

Gypsy

[scrawnybob]

hi

as Gypsy said if you have a hand history that would be really useful for us to look at

personally

I DONT think the random number generators at sites are rigged

I DONT think there are run of the mill players able to see hole cards / change cards etc

NB. (the only exception was potripper at absolute who was a high ranking employee abusing a security feature only available to a very very small number) - It's worth noting the absolute scandal is so far the ONLY proven case with online poker - and it was found by high stakes geeks who are also constantly playing on other poker sites - so they WILL spot other problems at other sites if they ever arose.

I DO think some players collude / cheat over IM & a very small minority have "pokerbots" which are of limited effectiveness - just playing automatically (but still with no knowledge of the cards etc)

Anyway back to the hand ...

Personally I've seen and been in this kind of situation loads of times - It's not really odd or dodgy at all - It's basic maths from the each of the players points of view & for the chip leader an affordable / tempting bit of a gamble well within his range given his chip stack (espeically if his hand was suited).

I fully understand why the chip leader in late position called (3) all-ins IMHO this would have been a potentially good play with any hand if the original all-in wasn't really a particularly big dent in his stake

The most important thing to recognise is that the MORE people calling your all-in the MORE reason it made 100% sense for the chip leader to call with ANY hand

I'll take a punt here (would be interesting to know how close I get)

You (in early position) have AA or KK (go all-in with a medium / small chip stack

Player 2 calls your all-in with something like JJ or QA (with a bigger stack than you)

Player 3 calls your all-in with something like 66 77 or 88 (with a smaller stack than you)

Player 4 (the chip leader) calls your all-in knowing he has all the players covered and actually has better than reasonable chance to take 3 players out / or add to the pain for 2 players

Long Short

basically if the other 2 players hadn't called your all-in the chip leader wouldnt have (in a million years) called you

He didnt have some magic peak of the flop before he called - he just saw an opportunity to take out 3 players + alot of chips for nice pot odds - it was just worth a punt for him

I bet that he was the chip leader as a result of having a good basis but able to be very aggressive in the right opportunities, avoid trouble when it came knocking, had a fair portion of luck but basically was a good player - who occasionally & rationally made the odd speculative call / play to mix it up - like this hand which came off

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

[GypsyTea]

Originally Posted by scrawnybob

hi

as Gypsy said if you have a hand history that would be really useful for us to look at

personally

I DONT think the random number generators at sites are rigged

I DONT think there are run of the mill players able to see hole cards / change cards etc

NB. (the only exception was potripper at absolute who was a high ranking employee abusing a security feature only available to a very very small number) - It's worth noting the absolute scandal is so far the ONLY proven case with online poker - and it was found by high stakes geeks who are also constantly playing on other poker sites - so they WILL spot other problems at other sites if they ever arose.

I DO think some players collude / cheat over IM & a very small minority have "pokerbots" which are of limited effectiveness - just playing automatically (but still with no knowledge of the cards etc)

Anyway back to the hand ...

Personally I've seen and been in this kind of situation loads of times - It's not really odd or dodgy at all - It's basic maths from the each of the players points of view & for the chip leader an affordable / tempting bit of a gamble well within his range given his chip stack (espeically if his hand was suited).

I fully understand why the chip leader in late position called (3) all-ins IMHO this would have been a potentially good play with any hand if the original all-in wasn't really a particularly big dent in his stake

The most important thing to recognise is that the MORE people calling your all-in the MORE reason it made 100% sense for the chip leader to call with ANY hand

I'll take a punt here (would be interesting to know how close I get)

You (in early position) have AA or KK (go all-in with a medium / small chip stack

Player 2 calls your all-in with something like JJ or QA (with a bigger stack than you)

Player 3 calls your all-in with something like 66 77 or 88 (with a smaller stack than you)

Player 4 (the chip leader) calls your all-in knowing he has all the players covered and actually has better than reasonable chance to take 3 players out / or add to the pain for 2 players

Long Short

basically if the other 2 players hadn't called your all-in the chip leader wouldnt have (in a million years) called you

He didnt have some magic peak of the flop before he called - he just saw an opportunity to take out 3 players + alot of chips for nice pot odds - it was just worth a punt for him

I bet that he was the chip leader as a result of having a good basis but able to be very aggressive in the right opportunities, avoid trouble when it came knocking, had a fair portion of luck but basically was a good player - who occasionally & rationally made the odd speculative call / play to mix it up - like this hand which came off

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

Its a great hand for trapping AA,KK,QQ,AK

Regards

GT I am dying to see the hand histroy...........

[FortMyersDrew]

Well posted scrawny i couldn't of put it better myself. It's simply pot odds if hes chip leader of entire tournament and hes in 1st out of 200.... I deffinetly see where he is coming from. He is making a gamble of probably 1/20 of his chipstack if not 1/30 lol to try and get much much more. You have to remember this is poker anything can flop..

[TheAAce]

Ive seen a lot more worse calls than that online, at least two five has a possibility of connecting, ive been called with kings by a queen four off suit and the guy hit two pair, it happens. if the guy is the cheap leader getting crazy odds to knock of three people at once, why not make the call though, its playing the odds, if he flops big he wins big, if he misses it didnt cost him that much and he can still be ok for the rest of the tournament. It sucks but what can ya do its poker

[gnk2727]

Please post the hand history. Gypsy Tea is excellent at analyzing them. His insight on a hand is probably some of the most useful info I have seen posted on this forum!

[PinYin55]

I'll get and post the hand history in a bit, I gotta write a paper for my class tomorrow.

At any rate, you guys have made me feel better. Thanks for all the input. I guess I got so into the tournament I forgot some crucial aspects of the tourney.

Thanks again guys.

[midwest]

Id rather see that 2-5 hit at a casino rather than online. Especially if the stakes are higher...not a freeroll. The higher the stakes or the entry fee, the more I would begin to wonder about randomness of the cards.

The fact that only ONE major scam has been exposed, scares me. Do you actually believe that this was the only hacker in the history of online poker? Don't thieves usually stay one step ahead? Anti-hacker software is always being changed to adapt to the hacker. The hacker could work for an online poker company, that operates in a foreign country. There is no such thing as the World Poker Police. Laws and watchdogs groups are different everywhere; if they exist at all.

Ill stick to the casinos when playing for major stakes. They know how to deal with cheaters there.