So sick by the extremely bad plays at the tables

[natbk2kicazz]

I was in a tournament today and it was down the last 17 players. Well I only had 1800 (give or take) in chips. So needless to say my stack was getting low because the blinds were killing me at this point. I needed to make my move. I was sitting at the table watching about 5 people going all in with K 8, Q 9, and 7 8. Terrible hands to go all in with before the flop. I sat back and tried to wait until I got the right hand. I got dealt QJ off suit and called the 600 dollar blind. The flop came 10 J 8. One of the reckless people at the table raised 600, and knowing from watching I was sure that she didn't have much. The pot size was over the amout of chips I had so I called her all in. Of course like I thought she would, she called me and shows her 8 4 off suit. She has a pair of 8's on the board. I don't remember the turn, but it was no help to either of us. Then the river.... oh you gotta love and hate that river card... it was a 4 to give her 2 pair and take me out. First of all I don't know why you would raise on bottom pair and second of all I don't understand at all why someone would call a reraise with bottom pair and a very crappy kicker. That's not poker!! I mean why play the game, I just don't understand. I'm just getting so fed up with all the donkey plays and the chasers at the tables. It's getting rediculous and I'm frustrated

Natasha

[ennotserp]

You didn't say whether or not you were in the money.
Assuming you were in the money, some players are just happy to cash, and they do not really care about increasing their stack, therefore they will go all-in with almost anything.
Having seen this before, I would still delay as long as possible the decision to go all-in unless I have a strong hand.

[pirates831]

OK, a few things:

1) Your post is very difficult to read and follow.

2) I disagree with you on your assessment of what people are pushing allin with. These are fine hands to push allin with preflop if you are a) shortstacked and b) first to enter the pot.

3) You limped into the pot preflop? Stupid move. You could have anything and the person is calling a small bet with bottom pair. You could have KQ. You could have K9. A9.

Your biggest mistake was not raising preflop to get 84 out of the hand. They caught a piece and went with it. It happens.

You want to hear a bad beat: I have JJ in the SB. Raise to 3xBB. BB calls. Flop comes 10 8 2. I bet. Guy goes over the top allin. I call. He has K4. No pair. No draw. I lost. I got over it.

[Arjonius]

Why do you feel going with third pair is an "extremely bad" play? If the opponent assumes you didn't have a pair above eights pre-flop, then you will be behind over half the time since you'll miss the flop about 2/3 of the time.

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Originally Posted by natbk2kicazz

I was in a tournament today and it was down the last 17 players. Well I only had 1800 (give or take) in chips. So needless to say my stack was getting low because the blinds were killing me at this point. I needed to make my move. I was sitting at the table watching about 5 people going all in with K 8, Q 9, and 7 8. Terrible hands to go all in with before the flop. I sat back and tried to wait until I got the right hand. I got dealt QJ off suit and called the 600 dollar blind.

hi n,

sounds like the majority new what you new, that they/you needed to make a move. The blinds are unclear in your post but i get the sense you did have to make a move with QJ. And your move CALL. Not here, I think the others have it, you would have chased the 84 out and stole another round of blinds, not great but better than going out. The minute you enter this pot lightly if you hit your hand at all its probably all in by the end and are you ahead or will you be by the end. In this situation I don't debate. Its in or out and I decide that early.

The only other advice I could offer is spend some time evaluating particular hands against unknown random hands for this and other situations when you are put all in and have to make a decision on whether to CALL. Once you get a generral sense of the strength of the hand against random cards then begin to note what the players are playing and match your hand to a range of hands they might be playing and see how it might compare.

If you think the allin is a bad option, then dump it and sit till you get the AA and/or get blinded out. But this rarely comes good. That low down, and a double up rarely buys the time to see another biggie and you're allin on the blinds with 84os and well you know... it never works for you

The flop came 10 J 8. One of the reckless people at the table raised 600, and knowing from watching I was sure that she didn't have much. The pot size was over the amout of chips I had so I called her all in. Of course like I thought she would, she called me and shows her 8 4 off suit. She has a pair of 8's on the board. I don't remember the turn, but it was no help to either of us. Then the river.... oh you gotta love and hate that river card... it was a 4 to give her 2 pair and take me out. First of all I don't know why you would raise on bottom pair and second of all I don't understand at all why someone would call a reraise with bottom pair and a very crappy kicker. That's not poker!! I mean why play the game, I just don't understand. I'm just getting so fed up with all the donkey plays and the chasers at the tables. It's getting rediculous and I'm frustrated

I think they did play the game and happened to have some luck."GG NH" Next please

and it always was/is/and always will be ridiculous.

[SailorBart]

That type of play dose suck. I've had that happen to me as well. On the other hand if the tournament is getting close to the end, if your the chip leader your play is probably going tobe a bit looser.

[natbk2kicazz]

OK to answer one of the questions first, no I wasn't in the money yet. One other thing, the people that were going all in with K 8, 78, Q9, 89, and 9 10, didn't have small stacks they had huge ones and kept beating out hands like Ak, K Q, J 10 because they would call on whatever was in their hand whether it was a 47 or whatever it was, they would call. They were making all in calls of well over 3,000 with very little in their hands. Everyone at the table knew I had a hand when I reraised the all in because of my conservative play at the table, so there is no mistake on the fact that they knew I had something. I went all in because by the time I called the 1200 all together I had only 600 in chips left, and I wasn't going to not call with top pair and a possible st8 draw.

The reason there was no raise by me preflop is because I hadn't been hitting any hands for awhile. Even the AK KQ hands that I had been getting, didn't hit and I kept losing my raises and having to fold. Since my stack was already so low, I didn't want to raise and then not hit. It would've made it harder for me to get my stack size up and the less chips I had the more callers I would have to take me out. That's why I wanted to keep my stack size up the highest I could until I seen some cards to determine my play after that.

Thank you for all your imput, but I still say that if people think that going all in with hands like 78, Q9, K 8 is good play then I have a lot to learn. Just can't believe that people think that is a good call with bottom pair and a 4 as a kicker.

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Sure, we're here to help if we can, and I notice that we have.

I'll be blunt. The problem is not with your allin which is correct, but that you've made it too late. The other guy no matter what his stack or cards is probably right on betting at that flop without a raise from you preflop, and also when you put your chips in. say 2 xBB pre, his 600, your 1200 pot = 3000 . Even if you have the overpair to his eights he's getting 5 to 1 from the pot on 4 to 1 behind and its that way till the end. You let him into the pot with dross and gave him a price with his hand.

If you're in doubt as to the value of certain hands, talk with your fellow team member Jacks_off4me (egs500 at Carbon). He could tell you how to play K3os, Q6os, T5s, oh and A9os

Its also quite hard to sift the information from the OP and some is missing. Do you know how to post a hand history? I'd find it easier to reply if you could.

[natbk2kicazz]

Now the pot odds, I do understand. When you explained it like that. I wasn't thinking pot odds and what she already had invested. I just don't play like that, unless I do have a stack of chips... which she did. So now I understand. But that was just for my hand though. In that game, I was just upset because there was some really bad plays the whole time. I watched 5 people playing like they would never get out no matter what they played. The thing that made me most upset about it, was that it worked. They would win with those hands everytime. I'm not talking just Q9 and the other ones that I had mentioned, it was anything they had in their hands at the time whether it was a 25 they would raise or go all in with. It was like being in a freeroll, which we all now is a donkey fest LOL!! It's just upsetting sometimes when people don't take the game as seriously as I do, I feel like they are making a joke of it, and it's working because they were winning.

I'm not sure If you were just wanting me to copy and paste the hand history or if you wanted a screen shot. I know how to do both, but I did see your point!! The history is lost now though, gets deleted everytime I log out. Thank you for all your imput though, it helped me to see a little clearer. I do have to say though, if I would've raised preflop, I know that she would've still called. That's how she played the whole game, no matter what she had... she called or would push all in. Ahhh well doesn't matter now. Like I said though, I just wish that people would take it more seriously and not make a joke out of it.

Natasha

[pirates831]

you are upset by people's bad play? you should be relishing this.

just curious what the buyin was on this tournament?

you have to remember you are gambling when you play poker. yes, there is skill involved, but ... its still gambling. and some people go to the casino to HAVE FUN. and that means playing hands, not sitting out waiting for a big hand. they had $50 to play with that night. they didn't care if they lose, as long as they had fun.