Learning from the 4KSOP

[Alnoble]

I'm not a bad NL Holdem player and have done reasonably well in the 4K leagues since I joinned the forum. So when Bob added the 4KSOP I said great bring it on.

5 games down and except for Stud Hi I have bombed out. I start off reasonable but suddenly find myself the low stack.

Why ?

My low hand game. I know the rules but I haven't realy understood them. It easy to see the premium low hands but I have played and wondered how I lost thinking I had a good low hand.

I think I've got it sorted now, I was looking from the lowest card first instead of the highest of your best 5 cards first.

Also with more betting rounds in most of these games even though they are limit games it's easy to put more into the pot than you should chasing that 1 card.

After this series would it be possible to have 1 league that has a different game each week so people can expand their game ?

Al

[Washerwoman]

yes, i'm awful at stud, i don't know why...too controlled, probably

really enjoyed the horse altho was like a muppet in it...

hi low is easier for me than hi or low...dunno why

doesn't make sense if i can't razz

but...who knows

gimme holdem any day, but i'm not great at that either...

but i'm gettin there

maybe a new "type" each week, say mon and thurs since we all like poker so much

thought those nights are good since don't clash too much with other games nites...well..brit-wise...

i'll try and organise team tumbleweed if nothing happens...i've got 2 months, is it, Bob???

caveat: hope i'm in the right thread...if not, move me...lmao!

[scrawnybob]

hi

I would love to do that - its been interesting to see that the numbers have been strong when I didnt know for sure if they would be

also interesting that we are doing similar or better numbers without team factor and in mixed games too

basically I will look into trying to do more mixed games - HORSE is in itself an option as the covers 5 mixed games in one game - so a HORSE league could provide that with some consistency or we could have a "mixed up" league similar to the 4KSOP but not with the same annual game series importance

anyway glad we are liking the 4KSOP

cheers scrawnybob

[nb1961]

I'm really enjoying the chance to play other games. If you get out there in the wild playing low buy in mixed or other that hold'em games they are a real donk fest. But the forum games have been really enjoyable

I for one would like to see some different games included in the leagues. I love Razz and Stud, I may not be that good at them but they are fun. It would be nice to have 7 game included too the NL and PL rounds give you a chance to "stretch your legs"

[Logan]

I think I've got it sorted now, I was looking from the lowest card first instead of the highest of your best 5 cards first.

Also with more betting rounds in most of these games even though they are limit games it's easy to put more into the pot than you should chasing that 1 card.
Al

Want to coment this hand.

Probably my mystake was not fold in 4t street, but what to do if know have the best hand at the time?


Full Tilt Poker Game #21569189149: 4kingpoker 4KSOP Razz (161809102), Table 5 - 400/800 Ante 75 - Limit Razz - 19:08:27 ET - 2010/06/12
Seat 1: zjohnzzz (11,231)
Seat 2: neilb44 (3,887)
Seat 3: JEFFSBABE (1,790)
Seat 4: LoganRobbiani (4,868)
Seat 7: phillyphilly (4,602)
Seat 8: skissors596 (5,345)
zjohnzzz antes 75
neilb44 antes 75
JEFFSBABE antes 75
LoganRobbiani antes 75
phillyphilly antes 75
skissors596 antes 75
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to zjohnzzz [5h]
Dealt to neilb44 [4d]
Dealt to JEFFSBABE [5c]
Dealt to LoganRobbiani [5d Ah] [9c]
Dealt to phillyphilly [4h]
Dealt to skissors596 [Jc]
skissors596 is high with [Jc]
skissors596 brings in for 100
zjohnzzz folds
neilb44 folds
JEFFSBABE calls 100
LoganRobbiani calls 100
phillyphilly calls 100
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to JEFFSBABE [5c] [9d]
Dealt to LoganRobbiani [5d Ah 9c] [8c]
Dealt to phillyphilly [4h] [2d]
Dealt to skissors596 [Jc] [5s]
phillyphilly bets 400
skissors596 has 15 seconds left to act
skissors596 folds
JEFFSBABE calls 400
LoganRobbiani calls 400 (i think should fold in here)




*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to JEFFSBABE [5c 9d] [9h]
Dealt to LoganRobbiani [5d Ah 9c 8c] [Tc]
Dealt to phillyphilly [4h 2d] [Kd]
LoganRobbiani checks
phillyphilly bets 800
JEFFSBABE folds
LoganRobbiani has 15 seconds left to act
LoganRobbiani: come on K high?
LoganRobbiani: come on phil
LoganRobbiani raises to 1,600
phillyphilly: why u in hand
phillyphilly calls 800

ok in here even if your face down cards are the best, he just could have A234K

So he have a K high hand, my hand is not the best but i have a 10 high hand made already, so how to fold in here?




*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to LoganRobbiani [5d Ah 9c 8c Tc] [8h]
Dealt to phillyphilly [4h 2d Kd] [3c]
phillyphilly bets 800
LoganRobbiani folds
phillyphilly shows [7h Ad 4h 2d Kd 3c] 7,4,3,2,A
phillyphilly wins the pot (5,250)

This hand cost me half of my stack, so, i know should fold in 4th street, but in 5th street how to deal with the fact you have the best hand in the momment?, need to balance future hands?

2 cards to go and i have best hand this sound to me like when some one have a flush draw in holdem and bet, you know he do not have the best hand, but know that is going to gamble for future 2 cards, so i need to decide if want to gamble? or how to deal this?

[pothole]

You must read the out cards possibly left to 'make' it for philly, even if you had A2 in the hole and caught a 3 on 7th, the best you could make was an 8 lo. All four 6's and 7's were still out plus two 8's, so philly had 10 outs. IMO the biggest mistake you made was the raise on 6th.

[Logan]

You mean 5th?, i fold in 6th.

So only can call there and just see what come?, do not supossed to push him?, i mean if a 7 A 4 2 K J Q come in 6th he still will be behind, not sure.

[pothole]

My mistake, I did mean 5th. If another face card had come on 6th sure you were way ahead, but he still had at least 10 outs. The important thing about limit is controling the pot, you can't be raised if you don't bet out.

[Logan]

Thanks.

Last questions

When to call a reraise in 3th?, or never should do when blinds are too high?

i mean 4 cards to come are too much, i have A-2-4, i raise, someone reraise allin and i see a J in 3th from him, what to do??

i call he flip 46J (or something like that), of course i lose, and with that lose 1/4 of my stack, is the same like holdem to balance how much of your stack versus pot odds?, or never should call with so many cards to come?.

Any decent read for razz?

[Logan]

Damn i miss the game by 5 min, don´t we have late registration before?