L-u-c-k

[michaelkozlowski]

It doesn't really matter on how you play the game online, it all comes down to luck.

My dwindling bankroll is now down to almost nothing. My last two SNG's I played so well, so smart. I folded some big hands quite well, made smart raises, called all-in when i needed to and with less than 20 players left in each SNG, I was removed without cashing by donks calling or raising with absolutely nothing and catching big luck.

So, it all comes down to LUCK online. This is especially true in SNG's and MTT's. A few years ago, the donkfest would end after the first few rounds, but now, with the bubble nearing, you still have donks out of position going all in with suited 7-9, A-3 offsuit, etc. Hands that I fiold on a regular basis. Don't give me position, pot-odds, or anything else. Just pure luck crushes any talent online. In the B&M world it is very different with reads, but online you can play the smartest, tightest, most passive/agressive game and lose to donkman with 2-7 offsuit all in against your A-A. or any premium hand. Although this is true that it does happen in the B&M world, it just happens regularly online. Maybe in large buy-in tournaments, it's different, but I can't afford that.

After my last two losses, I was somehow proud of my play, yet totally pissed at other players obvious DUMB luck. So, even though a player can play premium hands or semi-premium hands in position, it doesn't matter if you do not have LUCK.

Have a LUCKY day at the tables - that's all that matters.

[Alnoble]

luck does have a part to play in poker. You do need to win those coin toss hands. But you can win without luck

There are different types of players just before the bubble.

1. The big stack who will either act as a bully and raise the small stacks all in or just sit back and wait.

2. The short stack who will raise with any ace or half reasonable hand because their goal is the top money.

3. The short stack who sits tight hoping to make his stake back

4. The medium stack who will take opertunities to steal but is generaly tight at this time.

You need to work out who is at the table with you and act accordingly. If I get near the bubble I rarely miss out on cash. Trouble for me is getting close to the bubble as I can be impaitiant.

Join us in some 4kp games where the play is real.

[scrawnybob]

hi

I think generally live tournaments and games are regarded as MORE of a donk fest

with pro's getting frustrated with the poor quality of the WSOP field not only on the day 1's ABC's but on the 2nd days onwards too

interestingly you will find alot of the live game pro's wanting to play live more than online ... because ?

not the online players getting unlucky ... but because "too many of them are too good"
many many players are improving their game online

they prefer live where there alot of idiots out for a night out with no clue etc etc

admittedly there are also alot of donks online (as there is live) but luck is not a long term factor in a game of skill - either live or online

so I really think that its about understanding the game your in and playing accordingly - most players will be losers or break even at best ... that isnt down to luck that is just down to lack or skill or not enough skill yet ...

and the simple fact that in a MTT game only a few will cash so even with some skill and "some luck" your still much more likely to loss than to win ...

poker is NOT school non-competitive sports day where everyone is a winner ...

most will lose some will win and over the long term many of those who think they are the later will infact discover they are infact marginally the former

for most players - you need to enjoy the game and enjoy the process of playing and the challenge ... winning is great but most are not going to be long term winning players ...

thats online AND offline ... its just the nature of a game which has a few winners and alot of losers

cheers scrawnybob

[hojediade]

You should probably play accordingly to your BR as well. That's the only well-known way to avoid variance.
Check out SB poker articles for more infos: BR management

[Tomturkey46]

I have had a day yesterday, loads of donks catching cards on the river with 2-3 outs and all the rest.
BUT skill is a large part of the game.
Luck is getting cards, skill is getting the best out of them.

The Turkey

[michaelkozlowski]

I have had a day yesterday, loads of donks catching cards on the river with 2-3 outs and all the rest.
BUT skill is a large part of the game.
Luck is getting cards, skill is getting the best out of them.

The Turkey

Sorry - I played those two tournaments as skillfully as anyone could and I was donked out of both. Screw skill - it means nothing. Well, maybe not nothing, but it allows to play in tournaments for 3 hours before you are donked out of the cash.

[scrawnybob]

hi

maybe so other members can help and be constructive - what are your other stats on MTT's ?

or background in terms of previous games etc, what stakes were the 2 games at, field size etc etc

I'm sure that all the members including myself can add something constructive

also do you have more details on the hands that you got taken out with and how they played / stack sizes etc as this makes a huge difference on what and how people will play

hope we can help

cheers SB

[ennotserp]

If you are interested in this type of situation -L-u-c-k:

Try this for an exercise - for any period of time - say the month of February, keep track of all your all-in situations (maybe separating pre-flop all-ins from others) and summarize the results at the end of the period. This will tell you how many times you lucked out as well as your opponent.
What is the percentage you are getting a) beaten by a donk hand b) beaten by a good hand (not a donk) c) beaten by a hand which was ahead - and assuming you are not a donk d) hands you won while ahead and e) hands when you were the luc-sac.
You can also keep track of the number of errors you made (if any - lol) in these situations which may have contributed to your losses.

[Limey777]

I’m assuming you’re on the micros.
I don’t know if you prefer playing SNG’s to build a bankroll but I avoid them unless I’m REALLY in the mood. If I want to play a tourney most of the time I just hit a freeroll.
For me SNG’s are just too frustrating. I smoke like a chimney and have to go outside to do it so after an hour of playing poker my lungs are more than ready for a refill. I’m praying for them to be over and it usually ends in the blinds getting so high that we may as well throw all our chips in the middle and roll the dice. That’s just not my idea of a game of cards.
The same applies for a tournament, I sit there for 3-4 hours and usually fall foul to a big stack bully suck-out.

I think the best way to build a roll is on the 1c/2c ring games (still playing Omaha?).
I must have a good 50k hands at that limit under my belt and I wouldn’t advise sticking at that level for that long, but for the most part there are some decent players at that level and I think they’ve taught me a lot. Also there are some absolute donks that leave you scratching your head and asking "What just happened?". Got to learn from them too!

Play around with your buy-ins, I usually buy in for 60% of max. It just seems to work for me, I guess the $5 rich boys play a bit looser if they think they are only going to lose $3.
Play around with strategies too, If, I’m sat to the right of a big ole Red-fish I might go short-stack and wait for A-A suited let him build me a nice pot and fire away. It’s a bit boring and awfully slow but sometimes I’m just in the mood.
I would say ignore the short-stack strategy of buying in for minimum and then trying to steal every pot, I’m not sure what these guys are trying to do but I rarely see one win.
I also check the tables, if I see 1 player multi-tabling and he has $20 on every table, best to avoid, got my own theory on that but we’ve enough conspiracy theories going on at the moment. There are other players I avoid too, 1 in particular. Not naming names but his pic is kind of like a face with the skin peeled off (kinda Freaky!!!) I have got into too many heads up donk battles with him and I’m pretty sure he’s ahead, but it is fun too watch him hit the rest of the table with his unique style of play. Anyhow I digress.
Another player I try to avoid is the infamous "if you bet it, it will come donk". Don’t understand them, they bet 2c into a $1 pot and then call the pot sized reraise, if you bet min in front of them, they will min-raise. If he’s sitting to your right he’ll donk your money away 2c at a time. Too frustrating for me.

So I guess I’m trying to say avoid everything that tilts you. If you're not having a good time may as well log and wait till the next day. Using that strategy I win a good 90% of the time playing Green-fish poker, playing 3 tables. I see a lot of people flopping the nut straight and then trying to run everybody out of the hand, doesn’t hold up very often, best to limp and then bet the turn. I never slow play the nut flush though, trips will call flop and turn most of the time.

At that level don’t worry about "goals" your only goal is for your roll to increase. I consider $5 a night to be a great result. If you want more than that your going to have to go poker bomb and there are too many calling stations at that level. I wouldn’t go up to 5c/10c until you have $100 in your account, that way if you get smacked about (and you will because the players are in my opinion worse than 1c/2c) you’ll be able to recover. My worst day was -$70 in a 3-hour session at that level. Anyhow that’s about all I’ve got for now, hope some of it’s useful. Keep us updated!!!!

Just as a little footnote for the Pokerstars players, I know that a month or so ago quads over quads was happening 3-4 times a day on my tables. I can't remember seeing it happen this month though and I play just about everyday. Now it seems that an over boat is actually a hand worth betting with again and there's much more action on the tables. Hope it stays like this a bit longer.

[illphillllllll]

tournament play can seem like it relys totally on luck when you look back and say i was the favorite when i got eliminated. truth is that the truly skilled players get maximum value when they have the goods and take down pots uncontested when possible using position and good reads. there are members in this forum that do well grinding their bankrolls up playing solid poker, just continue working on your game and getting it in good. instead of dwelling on the negative work harder thinking about the hands you bled chips or felt you could have played better.