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Thread: Average ROI

  1. #1
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    Default Average ROI

    I don't even know what that is, but just curious what a good one is. I don't know how accurate sharkscope is, but I like to check my stats once in awhile. I don't have a large database but my sch. tourneys on merge I have a +54% but sitngo's are down below 10 I think. What should a good winning player expect to have for Av roi, and how large of a database for a true number.

  2. #2
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    Tournament regulars suggest that even a 1,000 mtt sample size isn't big enough to give a clear indication (seems kinda drastic doesn't it?).
    For MTT's... it depends (imo). It depends on what the player's motivation/goals are for playing in the first place (ie. is to get have a decent hourly rate over the longrun? Is it to have &/or build a bankroll? (possibly in hopes of playing at a higher buyin level) What I'm getting at here is -> alot of reg. cashgame players think that playing MTTs isn't worth it in the longrun (or the shortrun) as they feel the hourly rate isn't enough.
    Myself I play MTT's because I enjoy that form of poker the most (especially deepstacked MTT play, whether it be live or online). So for me, 'hourly rate' doesn't mean much at all.

    I would think that an ROI above 25% would be decent & above 40% would be great (alot of the MTT regs. who play high buyins & large volume will have an ROI of ~40%.... some are higher, some lower... sample size make s a big difference. An example -> ShaunDeeb on Pokerstars has ~10,000 mtts played and currently has an ROI of ~41%). There are some other MTT regs. who have an ROI of +150%, some even higher (usually not as many MTTs played... but still referring to players who've played at least 750-1,000 mtts).
    My own MTT ROI's are a bit on the low side at the moment - 23% on Fulltilt (but doesn't take into account the 100's of priv. cash-added MTT's that make up the majority of my play on there.. the +28% is based only on a sample size of around 400mtts). On Pokerstars I have an MTT ROI +28% (again this is excluding the priv. MTT's, & a small sample size of ~150mtts). Titan Poker is in the +300% range (maybe actually +500%?... as there's one tourney that isn't showing in my stats. > a $2 buyin where I took 1st for $298.00).

    For SNG play... in the micros they used to say that 20-25% was excellent but I would suggest that things have changed considerably in this area.... these days it's quite good to be able to maintain an ROI+10% even in the micros (maybe +15% if playing the $3 & under levels). This is based upon SNG/STT.
    The 'good' regs. who play the , 18's, 27's, 45's &/or the 180's are maintaining a much higher ROI then the 9plyr. regs. It's not uncommon to see players with ROI+20%... even +30% over large sample sizes (4,000 games).
    My own SNG ROI is lacking.... only at ~+1% on Fulltilt & Stars (~1,500 games). I'm just happy it's above zero (these days I don't play alot of sng's but will throw in a session occassionally). There has been other times when playing them more regularly where I've managed maintained +10-15% over a month or two.

    In the higher buyin levels of SNG play, ROI+1%/+2% is what the better players are managing. You'll occassionally see someone with slightly higher but not by much if any (this is avg.buyin over $100... and referring to 9plyr.. SNG/STT). There's also a bunch of regs. who play the 45's on Fulltilt ($10's, $26's, & $75's) who'll have an ROI +20% (some are even higher). Many of these are MTT players who'll also play ALOT of the 45's to supplement their income & to keep their roll alive. Quite a few of these regs. on the tables (ie. in a $10-45plyr. there'll likely be 10 players who are killing it out of 45 entered.... as you move up to the $26's, those numbers increase significantly).

    Maybe that breakdown helps you out a bit?
    Brad Booth - > "Like a fight... it's not how you start, it's how you finish"

  3. #3
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    As usual PO, you more than answered my questions. Appreciate it. Still don't know exactly how roi translates to earnings? Guess I could look it up, but I'm a little lazy and not that important i guess, just know + is good, - is bad.

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    Poker Orifice's Avatar
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    Here's an ROI example for you of some of the online MTT regs.

    Right now I'm watching the MinFtops#22 play out.. final 4players. 2 of them are FTOPS winners & another is a well-known player 'endlessj83' who's won the $1mil guar. and is a high ranked player (29th on the P5's forum). His mtt ROI is +206%, the two FTOPS winners have +49% & +53% (all have on avg. ~1500 mtts on Fulltilt).

    ROI = Return On Investment.

    Let's say you played the MidnightMadness MTT on Fulltilt ($10buyin), 10x... cashed in it once for $150.00
    Your ROI would = +50% (for each $10 you invest.... you get a return of $15)
    Brad Booth - > "Like a fight... it's not how you start, it's how you finish"

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