takes bad beats to win

[madjek]

Maybe it's because I play small buyin tourneys, but lately it seems that the only way to win is to make a bad call and get lucky. Seems thats the way every one goes. Either I have a big hand and get called by someone with something ridiculous or I am SS'ed and push and get called by someone dominating me but somehow I pull it out. That seems to be to only way I cash or win. When I get my money in good, I lose. It would be nice to play a great game and win, but doesnt seem to happen to often, seems that the bad players (pushin allin with A rag, callin big raises with 10 2 suited, etc) are the ones who win. Guess its just a bad stretch I'm in. I know, variance, blah, blah, blah...

[madjek]

This is what I mean. Just finished 10 dollar sit n go. Down to 5 players I get 9 9 BB. Guy min raises me everyone else folded. Blinds are up there 75 150 I think (maybe 100 200). He has 1300 chips I have close to 2000. I don't think he'll fold a reraise so I just call to see a flop and figure if there are High cards I can get out and still have a chance. Well the flop is 3 5 6 rainbow. We end up allin, he turns over A A. Don't know if I should of gotten out of that somehow, but obviously he played it perfectly. I only have 2 outs, oh yeah, except for the ridiculous runner runner straight. Well guess what, turn 7 river 8, he's out donkey me is in good shape now. I make the money, push with K Q s, get called by K 9, 9 one the flop, another bad call continues, dominating hands out.

[Assistanc3]

yes and no
you dont have to play like a donkey to beat them, but sometimes thats all you can do.

Its possible what you think you have been doing is the "mathematically" correct play. but poker is more then that. Think of it like, the probabilities of wining a tournament with only having the best starting hand every time.... its highly unlikely. So math is telling you, you have to get it in bad sometimes.

You can't ever get lucky if you don't get it in bad
Horse betting saying, Gotta be in it to win it.

[Poker Orifice]

This is what I mean. Just finished 10 dollar sit n go. Down to 5 players I get 9 9 BB. Guy min raises me everyone else folded. Blinds are up there 75 150 I think (maybe 100 200). He has 1300 chips I have close to 2000. I don't think he'll fold a reraise so I just call to see a flop and figure if there are High cards I can get out and still have a chance. Well the flop is 3 5 6 rainbow. We end up allin, he turns over A A. Don't know if I should of gotten out of that somehow, but obviously he played it perfectly. I only have 2 outs, oh yeah, except for the ridiculous runner runner straight. Well guess what, turn 7 river 8, he's out donkey me is in good shape now. I make the money, push with K Q s, get called by K 9, 9 one the flop, another bad call continues, dominating hands out.

As soon as I see a stack of <10bb's only 'raises' pre instead of shoving (& if it's a decent reg. playing) what range of hands do we put them on here? I mean if they held AK/AQ/AJ, AT, KQ, 66-TT (maybe JJ) they won't be raising.... they'll be shoving. The raise is more likely to be AA/KK/QQ (& maybe JJ) (of course it depends on table dynamics as well... but generally speaking this is a good guideline to go by for your typical $5-$10 sng reg.,... at higher buyin levels they'll be shoving their entire range including AA, KK, QQ to balance their range & add decpetion.

AND... in SNG's all we can do in late game play is to try to pick our spots as best as we can (ie. know when we have Fold Equity on a resteal shove, know who'll call down light, have a decent idea of what players aren't ICM knowledgeable, know what our +EV shove ranges are from different positions on the table & learn/know how to make adjustments for randoms & regs.
And 'yes', it is alot about math in the latter stages.

[rgchan]

The sneaky AA limp or Min Raise. I think its great when it works. But there is a whole other thread on that topic,
Rg

[Peteyweestro]

Personally i feel by the book exact poker is a sure way to lose, especially at the micro level and small buy-ins, as there are too many willing to shove with weak cards and play very loosely soooo unless you mix in some luck hands and some skill then i dont think you may make it far, the thing is to know when to try your luck, now that is the question grasshoppers

[Poker Orifice]

Personally i feel by the book exact poker is a sure way to lose, especially at the micro level and small buy-ins, as there are too many willing to shove with weak cards and play very loosely soooo unless you mix in some luck hands and some skill then i dont think you may make it far, the thing is to know when to try your luck, now that is the question grasshoppers

Well I'd have to say "I disagree" with this ^.

Sure the super micros can be real bad... with just a ton of badbeats but it's these same loose calls that are paying us off & allowing us to win huge pots (your edges will be much smaller in higher buyins, you won't see complete donks willing to stack off with weak hands.. ie. TPWK).

FOR SURE we need to (we MUST) make adjustments.... but not in the way you've suggested (imo). There are alot of things we can do (adjustments we can make) when playing on super micro tables that are full of both loose calling stations & loose, overly aggro donks (the mindless spewy-types who are playing with mindless aggression). Once we figure out what those adjustments might be, we can profitably play the super micros. Also, patience is key when playing the super micros as you will suffer thru some ridiculous beats (but these will be equally balanced by the ridiculously HUGE payoffs you'll get with your monster hands.. which will be equally funny when viewed this way).

[Poker Orifice]

maybe read my above post... "all we can do in late game play....... " (should actually be re-worded to being, 'what we need to be focusing on doing in late game play ......." )

[madjek]

I kinda agree with both of you. I think you can try to hit more lucky hands, especially early, in these since often the blinds arent raised at early levels. So , I think, what Petey is saying is you can try and hit a lucky hand (by getting in cheap), and as PO says, often they will pay you off even if you over bet, often get called with top pair. I just think you can't go overboard with it, you still can lose a good chunk just limping even in early stages and find yourself shortstacked early. Also you have to be willing to fold tp even tptk. Thats my problem sometimes, if there's 4-6 limpers, good chance tptk is beat. Btw, do I see some dissention among the "darkknights"

[Peteyweestro]

There is absolutley no dissension in our ranks as far as i can say, its just 2 differant views, as PO is more of a real poker player so he goes with all the technical stuff and jargon and thats why he is so good, whereas me i am more of a gambler that likes to play poker.Thats why i don't do as well as PO and why i say luck sometimes has alot to do with it.One of the main reasons i say "by the book " doesn't work is because i don't know how many times i have seen supposed Great players with all their implied odds and pot odds and all that go on tilt because someone beat them and knocked them out of a tourny with a hand they felt and all the poker books also said should never have been played to begin with.Sothey start calling names and crying because what some call donk moves some others call getting it in lucky,lol.