Did I go wrong in this hand?

[Shad]

First off, as you can see, I am shortstacked. I knew here that I was facing a flush or a flush draw at my best scenario. I flopped a set, and decided to push the rest of my stack after a guy raised big. In normal circumstances I can lay this down, but I was too short stacked and I knew I had a few outs and hoped to get lucky. 1992 people started, I finished 125, not too bad, but not in the money. I didn't really consider pot odds here, it's not like the pot was small or anything. Average stack was about 25k, blinds were at 250/500 - 50 ante. Any advice?


Full Tilt Poker Game #4189785181: $100 Canada Freeroll (31713848), Table 55 - 250/500 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:52:47 ET - 2007/11/15
Seat 1: ohsohappy (7,457)
Seat 2: gunzo1 (18,314)
Seat 4: KingCrusher9 (17,991)
Seat 5: Generalshad (7,100)
Seat 6: J_wilkz11 (54,075)
Seat 7: WoodlandCree (23,152)
Seat 8: Tobi_idoT (24,963)
Seat 9: StacksPaper (92,810), is sitting out
ohsohappy antes 50
gunzo1 antes 50
KingCrusher9 antes 50
Generalshad antes 50
J_wilkz11 antes 50
WoodlandCree antes 50
Tobi_idoT antes 50
StacksPaper antes 50
J_wilkz11 posts the small blind of 250
WoodlandCree posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Generalshad [4s 4d]
Tobi_idoT calls 500
StacksPaper folds
ohsohappy calls 500
gunzo1 calls 500
rlupo514 sits down
rlupo514 adds 11,148
rlupo514 is sitting out
KingCrusher9 calls 500
Generalshad has 15 seconds left to act
Generalshad calls 500
J_wilkz11 folds
WoodlandCree has 15 seconds left to act
WoodlandCree checks
*** FLOP *** [Ac Qc 4c]
WoodlandCree checks
Tobi_idoT checks
Generalshad: this looks painful
ohsohappy bets 500
gunzo1 calls 500
KingCrusher9 raises to 5,650
Generalshad raises to 6,550, and is all in
WoodlandCree folds
Tobi_idoT folds
ohsohappy folds
gunzo1 folds
KingCrusher9 calls 900
Generalshad shows [4s 4d]
KingCrusher9 shows [8c Tc]
*** TURN *** [Ac Qc 4c] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [Ac Qc 4c Kd] [8s]
Generalshad: good luck guys
Generalshad shows three of a kind, Fours
KingCrusher9 shows a flush, Ace high
KingCrusher9 wins the pot (17,750) with a flush, Ace high
Generalshad stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 17,750 | Rake 0
Board: [Ac Qc 4c Kd 8s]
Seat 1: ohsohappy folded on the Flop
Seat 2: gunzo1 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: KingCrusher9 showed [8c Tc] and won (17,750) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 5: Generalshad (button) showed [4s 4d] and lost with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 6: J_wilkz11 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: WoodlandCree (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Tobi_idoT folded on the Flop
Seat 9: StacksPaper folded before the Flop

[scrawnybob]

hi

tricky as its all down to personal way of playing

for me I'd have folded - mainly because although your not massively stacked you were also not so short and hadnt invested anymore than the 500 to call preflop

your stack was 7100 before the hand and you ended up going all-in with 6500 ish (to effectively call his rasie) thats with 2 flat callers before his big raise

I know I tend to favour very tight play when short stacked and I've been known to fold through the blinds purely to hang in and hope I can double up on the next circuit - purely to survive the next round of blinds - but that does work out better sometimes

dont feel you have to make a stand when you dont

By my rough calc - with the ante's and blinds each hand preflop pot is worth around 1150
so with 7000 your in a position to steal the blinds (preflop)

but when your on the button (after the flop)

your holding bottom set facing two calls in early position + an all-in decision

with 3 clubs on the flop + two of them are high cards (A + Q)

I think I would have definately folded - your outs are actually very limited against 3 players showing interest in the hand - one majorly so

even if he was stealing - let him - lick your wounds and think about the next couple of hands - your in late position so you could automatically all-in preflop with just about anything (assuming no-one else has beaten you to it)

BTW - the guy who made flush on the flop made a tasty play - he has the nuts but played to make it look like he was bluffing / stealing - knowing that he would probably get action from one of the two previous flat callers - NB. dont always assume that they are stealing - its the best thing in the world when you have the near nuts and also know you can push all-in with almost certainty of at least one call ;-) so watch out for that move

stealing thenext 2 hands (more safely) would have made you 2200 over 2 hands and bring you up to 8500 and still in the game

In short - I wouldn't talk yourself into making a move / bad play just because your short stacked or feel short stacked

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

[Dazzler69]

Originally Posted by scrawnybob

hi
In short - I wouldn't talk yourself into making a move / bad play just because your short stacked or feel short stacked


cheers scrawnybob

that was gonna be my point, lol. It is superbly illustrated at the $3000 NL Hold 'Em at the WSOP this year. Phil Hellmuth was the short stacked tried to take a pot down with K6 by betting and got re-raised. A lot of people would have called due to odds etc etc, and I have to admit I would have more than likely shoved in the rest of my chips, but he folded. Next hand he picked up Aces.

You weren't in such bad shape so that you were in 'pump or dump' mode, and you stack still had some fold equity to steal some antes and blinds.

[Shad]

I know what you guys are saying, but it's not that easy. That table saw alot of flops, even to preflop raises. It's a freeroll so there were still some donks. A couple hands before that I raised with KK and layed them down after the flop came Axx (at least I read it right, the guy showed A8). I had good hands leading up to that set, but had to fold most of them because people were hitting the flop bigger than me. The hand right before this one, I had an open ended straight flush draw and a pair of 10s, and I missed the turn and the river. It was a really difficult place to be in.