NON US League II Hand discussions

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

This is the new thread for discussion of the hands played in the NON US League II games.


Our motto at this forum is "Don't get bitter, get better!"

This is one way of living that motto.

I hope this helps others with their game and understanding of why players do what they do.

I look forward to your interaction and thoughts.

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

The originating posts of this thread are here:

This Sundays Bodog / RedKings results

Originally Posted by dak76

Hi NF4

Congratz. Very nice TAG game, you adapted very well to that weird FT.

It was a tough game for me, not very happy overall, I cannot get into table dynamics correctly when there are sitters at the FT.
Also had a difficult time identifying some of the FT players, if playing decent poker or just bullying.

Two moments i'd like to share with you nuts4 (or futs?):
- a sitter that woke up maniac from the death to take almost half of your stack lolll you took good care of him later ty
- when we were HU, this hand happened:

Hand T4-68457867-134, Started at 25-05-2008 19:33 (GMT+0)
Table 'Petaluma': 600-600 No Limit HE (TournamentChips)
Seat 7: dak_76 (6.880 in chips)
Seat 9: NFUTS4 (9.620 in chips) (on the button)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
NFUTS4 : Post Blind (300)
dak_76 : Post Blind (600)
Dealt to dak_76: Ad
Dealt to dak_76: Kh
*** Pre-Flop *** :
NFUTS4 : Bet (900)
dak_76 : Raise (2.000)
NFUTS4 : Call (1.400)
*** Flop *** : 3s 8d 3d
dak_76 : Check
NFUTS4 : Bet (1.000)
dak_76 : Fold ---------->> I run out of time typing "I have the same hand as you" I was about to push it AI when timed out

Do you mind sharing your holecards?

t was the HU decisive hand for me. Thanks

gg all
cya at the tables

Thanks dak. I hope you find this interesting I did and you're not too mad with me . I reviewed the whole game and here is my view from FT.

You noted my play well in the game.

TAG (Tight Aggressive)

Thats exactly how i played the early stages of the tournament and it definately created the right image. I had all the premium hands (AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,AKs) with AA's twice throughout the game.

It was a strange game and at times it was hard to let some hands go. You kept raising me in the Blinds and everytime I had nothing but I knew i could work this later.

Once the maniac was dealt with, I was much happier and was waiting for the next to go. No real change in game plan except noting the hands I'm getting and some bad action.

Down to four:

Hmmm things are changing. Strange sitout and allin bet from errigalx FOLD,FOLD. Attention is drawn to how I'm going to play this. Action is reasonably fast and I could easily loose it.You raised allin preflop against me (77). I wanted to but bit hard FOLD. I'm starting to get a little rattled.

Down to Three:

OH OH dak has chip lead. I thought you had it here.

My play had to change.

I'm in the money, thats good.
My image is strong thats good.
The action is fast, thats good.
I've seen a lot of big hands, thats not good.
The other players are strong, thats not good.
I've been unfortunate with a few hands, thats not good.
Blinds increasing (M:<5), time to move.

Dealt A9os in SB. You on button rasie 2BB.
I reraise hoping darkRalph with fold.
OMG, He rereaises. You fold.

Pot: 7,595

Read on Ralph: Big Pair

I'm a 70-30 dog to pair TT-KK, a huge 95-5 dog to AA,

I don't like the postiton I'm left in if i fold, the pot is giving me roughly 4 to 1 to call. I'll take plunge and go for a swim.

Oops my read was good. Opps it Not the ones I wanted to see.
I don't believe it.
DR's AA's cracked

I did apologise to DarkRalph and I'll do so again. You played well and didn't deserve for me to hit trips.

Down to 2:

Dak_76 and myself.

The position is rosier now but a lot is against me.
Will my hands continue?
Will my luck continue?
Will my opponent continue that aggression?
Is the 3/2 chip lead enough here to sit and see a few pots cheaply?

I really didn't like my position despite the lead and wasn't longing for a long extended game nor did I expect that it would be one. I had to make another move to increase my lead and about all I had going for me was my image.

This leads to the hand in question.

After a bit of chopping the blinds this hand came:

Hand T4-68457867-134, Started at 05/25/2008 8:33 PM (GMT+1)
Table 'Petaluma': 600-600 No Limit HE (TournamentChips)
Seat 7: dak_76 (6,880 in chips)
Seat 9: NFUTS4 (9,620 in chips) (on the button)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
NFUTS4 : Post Blind (300)
dak_76 : Post Blind (600)
Dealt to NFUTS4: 5h
Dealt to NFUTS4: Qh
*** Pre-Flop *** :
NFUTS4 : Bet (900)
dak_76 : Raise (2,000)


Now there's 2 choices for me here.

1) Get the hell out.
2) Play. This I like when I'm in the mood and in position. Its not that much more to call and my opponent certainly has a hand and will make reading the flop easy. I didn't think about it too long. I'll call and see a flop. Its easy to play after the flop. I'll either hit a monster, flop a draw or toss it.

NFUTS4 : Call (1,400)
*** Flop *** : 3s 8d 3d
dak_76 : Check

Where are we here. You obviously didn't like my call and that flop or you have a big pair and waiting for the check raise. I thought you might have AK or similar but would have expected the continuation bet on the flop with those hands. To find out exactly where you were with it I decided to bet. Would my image hold? I chose $1k for two reasons:

1) If you didn't like my call and are on big ace you might fold to a bet, and a smaller bet given my image would scare you more than a big one.
2) If i make that bet, I only need a 25% that you'll fold to make it profitable.

I'm not at a huge loss and actually like my postion if I fold after a reraise from you or get called and dump. I'll be behind and we can play the aggressive game again.

NFUTS4 : Bet (1,000)
dak_76 : Fold
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 6,200 | Rake: 0
Board: [ 3s 8d 3d ]
dak_76 lost 2,600
NFUTS4 bet 3,600, collected 6,200, net 2,600


I couldn't believe it when you folded.

You were the aggressor preflop, why didn't you continue after the flop?
Remember all the blinds you stole from me?
I did. I guess when you raised this time and I called it was in your mind too.

Your image wasn't one showing weakness up until we were heads up.
Then i got the sense you were more happy to play a longer HU game before this hand came and I certainly didn't want that. Your reraise in my opinion was a little small, it made the pot more welcoming to me. If you had raised 3-4X my bet I gotta fold without a big pair.

Yes, I agree that hand was pivotal, and I would probably have gone with your move with the draw in the last hand also.

An enjoyable game, if a little frantic, and lucky.

Not all of the above was ascertained at the table but only with some hindsight. Play at the table sometimes has to be instinctive, only later can you ascertain the reasons why you did what you did. Thanks to you dak_76 for requesting the hand. I hope that the knowledge of my cards will help with your game.

Congrats on the cash out too.

Oh and the rematch? Sweet

P.S. Did you note the flop on this hand Dak and the board in the last hand? [383] Weird?

[dak76]

Hi NF
Sorry, but only now had some decent time to write.

Thanks dak. I hope you find this interesting I did and you're not too mad with me . I reviewed the whole game and here is my view from FT.

First of all, let me tell you that reading your post was one of the most delightful experiences I've had in the past months concerning to online poker, and I'm thrilled with this new idea of us members getting involved in 4kp events hand discussion.

It was a strange game and at times it was hard to let some hands go. You kept raising me in the Blinds and everytime I had nothing but I knew i could work this later.

I know I pushed a littlle further on your blinds, always with respect and knowing I would be getting a good call, but I had very few EV spots, to my left there was a sitter, you, and another sitter, and maniac chasing sitters to my right...

It was a tough game for me, with a really cold deck.
Looking back at my hand history I'm happy considering my hole cards. I understand better now why I was feeling weak, had to make some risky moves to stay alive, and when my M was down, didn't play by the book.
But my feeling was I had to be patient while mixing some aggression to be respected, in this particular and frenzy FT.

Decisive moment for me:
A long waited flip between me and the other shorstacked ex-maniac
If I survive I can take some pressure off my back and get a new focus
JTs vs villain 97s
river brings a nine and a runner runner flush for me
pot 1940

Down to four:

A few hands later you double me up - lucky me
I'm in the BB with 1340 chips
You raise CO 2BB to 1200, and we go AI. The moment had to come, but not happy to go with you and you knew I would be calling, not happy with my cards for a flip either, hopefully you have overcards...
T3o vs KJs
board 7 2 6 ...
turn T river T
wow you gotta love poker
and runner runner trips to give me that extra confidence

My patient was rewarded. I was still the shortack with near 3k chips at bubble time
Had to do something if I was planning to get HU.
And bubble time was the right moment.

Put a lot of aggression in that period, and to my luck the player at my right was strangely sitting out.
10 hands later I had won 7 pots and NF4 was kicking the bubble

Down to Three:
OH OH dak has chip lead. I thought you had it here.

Yess!!! I have the chiplead, but was somehow concerned with my image, had to slowdown the pace... or I wouldn't be getting the respect I need from my opponents. And save some chips for HU.

By now my guess is NF4 is going HU with me

Down to 2:

Heads-Up at last! Not leading although, NF4 got the dirty job to kick DR and the chips, fair enough the 2/3 stacks diff.

It was going to be a fast HU, with 11 players you can't go wrong, but somehow I wanted it to last. You were right once again.
Why? Because I still had the frustration of the cold deck in my mind, the fold fold fold in the early FT stage, some emptiness and the sensation of few hands played.
So I wanted to play poker, good poker.
I was happy with my second place, let me enjoy some mental games and have some pleasure from poker.

This leads to the hand in question.
After a bit of chopping the blinds this hand came:

Dealt to dak_76: Ad
Dealt to dak_76: Kh
*** Pre-Flop *** :
NFUTS4 : Bet (900)
dak_76 : Raise (2.000) --> easy push but enough coin-flips for tonight, let him act, one way or the other I'll end AI
NFUTS4 : Call (1.400) --> damn, I don't know exactly where I am. Guess why this is a mistake on the long run...

*** Flop *** : 3s 8d 3d ---> again?!?
dak_76 : Check --> It's a check-raise. You were 1st aggressor PF but I was last to act. You know I have a strong hand, you know I am thinking you have a strong hand, a cbet is too basic and I do have a hand, so i check to play and get some more info.

NFUTS4 : Bet (1.000) --> trying to look tricky? Or to make me fold Ax? I have AK, but I wonder...
dak_76 : Fold

Not in my plans. I was enjoying the moment, typing in chat, and maybe because I wasn't used to playing in redkings or due to UMTS, the moment from dragging the sidebar and push allin took too long... a lesson to learn

I thought you might have AK or similar but would have expected the continuation bet on the flop with those hands.

It would be too straightforward poker... not in the mood

I decided to bet. Would my image hold? I chose $1k for two reasons:
1) If you didn't like my call and are on big ace you might fold to a bet, and a smaller bet given my image would scare you more than a big one.
2) If i make that bet, I only need a 25% that you'll fold to make it profitable.

Congratz on both reasons.
1) a smaller bet would do more damage if I was near folding, you're right
2) I guess you can call it profitable :P right again

I couldn't believe it when you folded.

Me neither. Got speechless

You were the aggressor preflop, why didn't you continue after the flop?

Had AK, no fold equity, wanted to play instead of coin-fliping

Remember all the blinds you stole from me?
I did. I guess when you raised this time and I called it was in your mind too.

You can be sure about it, again you're right

Your image wasn't one showing weakness up until we were heads up.
Then i got the sense you were more happy to play a longer HU game before this hand came and I certainly didn't want that.

Yes, it was an option, was willing to extend a little and enjoy

Your reraise in my opinion was a little small, it made the pot more welcoming to me. If you had raised 3-4X my bet I gotta fold without a big pair.

I know you do gotta fold, or I would be in big trouble against your bigpair. Also it would make you think a little more

Yes, I agree that hand was pivotal, and I would probably have gone with your move with the draw in the last hand also.

It was pivotal in did, unfortunately we didn't go all the way.

But now something has changed. If before I tought it was somehow unfair my 2nd place mostly due to the hand in question, now I look back and think you deserve the winning, I misplayed my hand one way or the other and that's -EV

Reviewing my game was very instructional, reading NF4 analysis and discussing the hand with you was delicious, overwhelming and intense. thank you

Congrats on the cash out too.

[dak76]

Hi FUTS

What did happen tonight at Titan?
Mind sharing with us?

[dak76]

I'm asking because it's not usual to see you beeing the 1st to leave...

So I was wondering...