Donk!!!!! and disrespect

[vixenx78]

This is something that I've always wondered about.

Why does it seem like so many members/players are quick to label players as donks, resort to name-calling, and sometimes show utter disrespect at the tables? I know the term 'donk' in poker means a person who plays bad at the tables, but I think the term itself gets thrown around way too loosely. Too many people either generalize a group of players as 'donks'-"I hate freerolls because they're all full of donks!" or they are quick to label a player as a donk-"I can't believe that donk raised with J10s UTG and beat my AQ!" I actually find that this generalized labeling of players to be very disrespectful. I'm not saying that there aren't bad players out there, but I don't think its right to be so quick to judge someone. Lets take a look at freerolls because they're known for being full of 'donks'. Freerolls are not only perfect for those who want to build a bankroll, but they're perfect for those who are learning the game as well. If a player makes an obvious mistake at the table and you do not know them at all-are they a donk or they a new player trying to learn? You don't if they're new or not, but are quick to label them as a bad player. Is that really fair? Not everyone who plays bad is a bad player, so don't be so quick to judge.

It seems like a lot of people view poker as a 'who is right vs who is wrong' battle. If an opponent doen't play to their liking or how they would play, they usually label that opponent as a bad player. Instead of learning to adjust thier strategy so they can exploit their opponents obvious weaknesses, some players will continue to play the same way and then complain when their opponent is 'playing wrong' when in fact its them who is playing just as bad.

Take this for example: You are an aggressive player with AKs who raised preflop and was called by someone who you know is a calling-station. You bluff on all streets with pot-sized bets only to lose on the river by the opponent who called you down with 29o and paired their 2 on the flop.

What a donkey, right? Well, yes-I guess you could say he is one. His play is obviously bad, but what about yourself? Do you label yourself a donk just as quick as you label your opponent? Probably not, right? Its probably because you feel like you were playing correctly and making the so-called 'right moves' and your opponent wasn't. However, take a step back and look at what you really did. You tried to bluff a calling station-is that really the best strategy against these types of players? No, right? So, is your play not just as equally bad as your opponents?

"But I had AK and he had 29! I had the better hand and lost!" This is another thing that I feel needs to be discussed: being result oriented. Many players are too 'best hand' obssessed and they take losing to an inferior hand as a 'bad beat' way too often. What I think some players tend to forget is that poker is a game of decisions-making the right decisions will benefit you more in the long run than making the wrong ones. Losing with AA to much weaker hand will have little effect on your long term game if you've been making the correct desions up that point and afterwards. Its impossible for a single hand to win all of the time and thats something some players need to understand. However, I think some players are tunnel-visioned and sometimes do not think about the long term when facing a recent beat or bad play by an opponent. I'll admit, I sometimes lose focus of the long term goals and become result oriented. Sometimes I'll get upset and tilt for a bit and there is nothing wrong with it. Everyone does it, but the difference is the players who are able bounce back from it. Those who are able to take a beat or a string of beats but still focus on the long term will strive better than those who view poker as hand vs hand situations.

A funny thing about the bad beats is a majority of them are not even bad beats at all. They're just standard losses that are going to occur. Again, this goes back to being 'best hand' obsessed. AK vs 29 is going to lose 30% of the time even though AK is the much better hand. I suggest that some players plug a few random hands into an odds calculator and you'll see a lot 70/30-60/40 situations. I'm not saying that calling with hands like 29 or worse is a sound play or anything, but this is just an example of being result oriented.

Another thing is the next time you suffer a 'bad beat' and think about calling the opponent a donk or anything else, look over the hand again. And I dont mean look at the results, look at how everything played out. And ask yourself if you've made the correct decision on every street vs this particular opponent. Going back to my example of bad decisions vs a bad player = bad plays by both parties. And if there is anything you did wrong or could have done better, instead of being quick to call someone a donk, improve from it.

I take pride in knowing that I am able to show respect to my opponents, no matter what happens. And I find it very respectful when I see another player at table type 'NH' and 'GG' to an opponent who just beat them in a typical 'bad beat' situation. Not only does it show good sportsmanship, but a lot of character and who they are as a person. Its actually not hard to do and looks so much better than berating a player and calling them names.

[villaridge]

Hey vix, donkeys and poker is one of my favorite subjects. Here's something I wrote last spring to highlight the absurdity of calling someone a donkey:

BLUFFING DONKEY Versus PRO

THE DONKEY BLUFFS:
They think they can win the hand by making a large bet, re-raise, or all-in.
They don't understand poker.
It feels great to take down a huge pot with nothing.
They want to take you out, it doesn't matter who you are.
They will bluff from any position, but don't realize position matters.
Will make up bluffing strategy on the spot, based on the hand and the players and their past experiences with bluffing.
THE PRO BLUFFS:
They think they can win the hand by making a large bet, re-raise, or all-in.
They understand poker.
It feels great to take down a huge pot with nothing.
They want to take you out, it matters who you are
They will bluff from any position, but do realize position matters.
Will make up bluffing strategy on the spot, based on the hand and the players and their past experiences with bluffing.

WHEN A BLUFF LOSES:
DONKEY is told he is a donkey with very "colorful" language, made fun of, ostracized, shunned, thought of as a very weak player.
PRO is congratulated on his daring, and even though they lost, invariably comments on how many "outs" they had. Thought of as a crafty practitioner of poker strategy.
WHEN A BLUFF WINS:
DONKEY is told he is a donkey with very "colorful" language, made fun of, ostracized, shunned, thought of as a very weak player.
PRO is congratulated on his daring, and even though they won, invariably comments on how many "outs" they had. Thought of as a crafty practitioner of poker strategy.


WHEN YOU FOLD TO A DONKEY BLUFF:
You bemoan the fact that poker lets idiots play, thinking "how can I call that..they might have anything. what a donkey!".
WHEN YOU FOLD TO A PRO BLUFF:
You bemoan the fact that the pro is so good, thinking "how can I call that..they might have anything. what a great player!".


WHEN YOU BEAT A DONKEY BLUFF:
You insult the donkey for their bluff attempt, letting them know their play is so lame, but that you "saw right through them".
WHEN YOU BEAT A PRO BLUFF:
You congratulate the pro for their bluff attempt, letting them know their play is very deep and complex, but that you "saw right through them".


This is a villaridge tongue-in-cheek production. Not to be taken seriously.

[pothole]

I don't mind the "donk" callers at all, they are the one's who are probably the donks anyway. One thing I did find a tad offensive however, is racial comments in a game where all players at a table may be from different countries. I experienced this at the Titan league buyin game this week from one particular player, who made comments like, "you better take him out "Frenchie" and "That damned Romanian". Expect anything in an open game, but not in a forum game.

[j0sh1ngU]

great post. really enjoyed it. i myself can say i was pissed whne i lost a 200+ dollar hand to a guy who was on a flush draw and i had trips. i mean its terrible but 70% i win 30% he wins so it is acceptable even though it sucks. and i went on tilt after that

[PrOyKaEnR]

I can understand why people would be labelled a donk, simply because of bad play, like 27 all in and beating AK or something like that.

But it is a stupid label seeing as when your at a table with your own money, the moves are your own decisions.

The label is usually just given when someone is ranting because they were beaten with the clear better hand, don't get so hung up on the label.

[dmabe31]

Thats a good write-up villaridge. Very interesting. A bit comical as well.

[macviteee]

i think sometimes the lable donk is jsutified fo certin players but i do also think its over used oo i mean eveyone needs to get lucky sometimes and people forget that they have sucked out on the river plenty of tims but they dont recall that whilst they are in the moment wiht anger again human nature, control your anger say nice hand start a fresh sure way to sucess peace and love i say

[scboni78]

nice post by both of u by the way.

i agree with the terms in both post . people are quick wited to say donkey .
the ones i luv arethen ones that u are playing at with the same table for more than an hour or two and u have the table image of being tight but agressive.
in hand sequince. u have Js10s on the button u raise the smb bb
the bb calls u flopthe str8 ,he cks u bet he calls turn comes rag he bets to steal u call
rvr blank he shuvs and u call then in the chat box he say what f***ing donk . all i could do is lol cuase is he calling himself that cuase that the only i could think of . even tho i played it passive cause i knew he was looose and agressive .

[mom2girls98]

wow thanks for saying all that- I like the differences between a donk and pro- so true- ( and I never thought of it that way).

I too hate when name calling starts- I just try to be patient and wait it out.
thanks for the post.

[onlyluckcanbeatme]

Oh calm down Just ignore them...Labeling people as donks or any other name is sort of a strategy in playing poker... you can try to get em riled up u kno. I call people names all the time but its just to get them pissed and make em think im not donking at the same time when i really am.