Question on small pocket pairs

[Poker Orifice]

Originally Posted by ND1991

Re-visiting this one. In a $30 + $3 tournament with a $4000 guarantee. 119 players entered, 25 paid, and down to final 16. Sitting at 9th in chips with 25000 and blinds at 600/1200 with 120 ante.

I get dealt 66 UTG. With 1st and 2nd in chips at 99000 and70000 to my left.

Curious what would you do? I have played few hands, and when we have flipped, I have won every hand but one and that one I was 70% favorite when money went in 99 vs. A7o.

Thanks again for advice.

Payout structure
21 to 25 - $56
16 to 20 - $64
11 to 15 - $72
10 - $90
9 - $110
8 - $130
7 - $150
6 - $180
5 - $240
4 - $300
3 - $400
2 - $520
1 - $920

Good question ND. My answer... "FOLD". Typically at this stage of the tournament we're seeing shorterstacks play back and shove &/or opening raises being 3-bet where we'll be tossing the low pp anyways (we're too short here to have implied odds to setmine).

With a 20bb stack, we don't want to open raise/fold preflop (it's a huge spew) and limping is also really weak. On a stack size of 14-20 bb's... we'd typically want to be looking for spots where a) we're opening with intentions of getting it in if &/or when we're played back on (but depends obvioiusly)..... b) re-stealing to an LP blind steal raise by shoving

My answer isn't one I've just pulled from my posterior orifice... but one I've read about in a few publications (ie. "Winning Poker Tournaments - One Hand At A Time"). In EP just fold 22-77 in a spot like this.

As far as grouping pp's and forming decisions this way..... it's good to have some guidelines for one's play but I wouldn't form my own around my own two cards so much (for one it can be pretty transparent... ie. we're only 3-betting w AA KK sorta thing.... and can also be pretty exploitable).
Each play depends upon stack sizes, my postion, stage/level of tournament, my table image, player reads, etc.

With 66 UTG if we do anything but just fold what sort of result are we actually hoping for? (limp & get re-raised and then fold?.. we can't call with implied odds to set mine because we're not deep enough here, nor will eff. stack sizes be deep enough....... raise and get 3-bet and then fold?.... raise and get flatted and then facing 2 or 3 overcards on a flop and pray we're up against a super passive opponent who checks it down to the river? .... alll reasons to just dump it preflop

[Rosien2k8]

Hello i posted in anotehr section how i play pairs


99-88 ealry postion I RFI fold if reraised

77-55 middle postion RFI FOLD IF RERAISE

44-22 LATE POSTION RFI CALL A EARLY RAISE 3-5 X THE BB

I USE TO LIMP IN WITH PAIRS TRY TO HIT THE SET...THEN SAY IM HOLDING

66
FLOP COMES

7 4 2

NOW WHAT ? SOMEBODY BETS THE POT DO I FOLD? WHO KNOWS WHAT COULD THEY HAVE ?

THEY BETTING ON THEIR HIGH BROADWAYS? OR MAYBE SET 2 4 7?

SO I PLAY I CALL

TURN COMES 9

NOW WHAT? 4 CARDS UN DER 10 N THIS GUY AGAIN BETS POT?

FOLD RIGHT? SURE NAH NOT ME I GOTTA SEE WHAT HE HAS IM POT COMMITEDSO THEY SAY (BTW YOUR NEVER POT COMMITED U CAN FOLD ANYTIME U LIKE)


RIVER CARD COMES..ANOTER 2

SO HERE

7 4 2 9 2

I GOT 66

HE GOES ALL IN

WOW WTH HE GOT? I GOTTA CALL

I CALL THAT TIME ..THE TIME IM TYPING BOUT NOW....THE GUY RASED RASIED RASIED WITH A K OFF


I WON THE POT.....NOW ON THE OTHER HAND I WAS A TOTAL MESSS THE WHOLE HAND I THINK I SMOKE 3 CIGGS THAT HAND.


SO I DONT LIMP IN WITH EM....REASONT HE GUY KEPT BETTING?


I THINK HIS OUTLOOK WAS WELL I LIMP IN WITH ACE K THEY LIMP IN THEY AINT BETTING

SO I MUST HAVE THEM BEAT WITH MY ACE KING

I DUNNO I EITHER PLAY MY SMALL PP LIEK ID O WITH THE REST OF MY CARDS IN THE POSTIONS I STATED OR I FOLD THEM UP...


GOOD LUCK

ROSE

[andrew5]

never go all in with small pocket pairs

[zzzzisme]

the thing about small pocket pairs is thats what they are a small pocket pairs.

[kingmotan]

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

wtf is this??
interesting for a first post.....

I reported the post few days ago, thought Bob saw it..

[PLAYFUL1]

HEHEHHEHEH YAH NICE 1ST POST...MAYBE HE THOUGHT THAT WAS GOOD ENUFF 2 GET THE PASSWORDS

[PLAYFUL1]

STILL CUDN'T FIND THAT RUSSIAN PORN SITE. LOOK AND LQQKED ..NO FIND

[Poker Orifice]

Originally Posted by andrew5

never go all in with small pocket pairs

Actually Andrew5, in tournament-style NLHE play there are alot of times where you'd consider going allin preflop with a low pkt. pr.
Here's a few of them: (referring to play in MTT's where buyin exceeds micro levels)
It's mid to late levels & a late position player has raised preflop (typically 2.5x as is the norm), you are on the button or in SB with ~14-22 bb's and you look down and see 5-5. This is a perfect spot/oppurtunity to get all of your chips in on a re-steal as you'll be picking up a nice sized pot and chances are villain will be folding... if not there's also a good chance you're in a race and with all the extra money in the pot (his raise, the blinds & the antes) you're getting great odds to get your stack in there). {typically in this spot we're in good shape vs. villain's range & FOR SURE is a +EV shove}.

Here's an example in SNG play (although there are many, this is just a simple one).
There's 3 players left & you're ITM and sitting in SB on 10bb's with 3-3 (blinds at 150/300, you have 3,000 chips). SHOVE!!! You never want to raise & fold in this spot & you really don't want to raise & call either (If you're going to raise & call... why not just shove in the first place? you will increase your chances of taking down the pot). If you're on ~10bb's or less & you raise preflop then you're pretty much always priced in to make the call if villain shoves back on you because you'd be getting ~2to1 on the call and in this case almost any two is a call (depending upon 3rd player's stack size of course).

In SNG & Tournament play you definitely want to be shoving all of your chips in in alot of spots & a low pkt.pr. is a great hand for doing so.
There are TONS of spots where shoving allin preflop with a low pp is considered +EV, above is just skimming the surface.