Not bad beat but UGH!

[ND1991]

Bodog - $16.00+$1.60|<> NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
CO: $5,480.00
BTN: $3,195.00
SB: $1,500.00
Hero (BB): $2,860.00
UTG: $1,965.00
SB posts SB $100.00, Hero posts BB $200.00
Pre Flop: (pot: $300.00) Hero has Q:diamond: A:heart:
fold, fold, BTN raises to $400.00, fold, Hero raises to $2,860.00 and is all-in, BTN calls $2,460.00
Flop: ($5820.00, 2 players) T:diamond: J:heart: 8:heart:
Turn: ($5820.00, 2 players) 5:spade:
River: ($5820.00, 2 players) T:spade:


[spoil]BTN shows 5:heart: A:diamond: (Two Pair, Tens and Fives)
Hero shows Q:diamond: A:heart: (One Pair, Tens)
BTN wins $5,820.00
[/spoil]

[villaridge]

UGH is right. u have 4 players so short handed, so AQ is strong. u paid the BB of $200, button raises to $400, and u go all in. UGH

Look short handed is not about all ins with strong cards like A Q off. what happened to poker, like calling $200, and seeing the flop and post flop playing? you coulda got out to fight more, or post flop c-bet to rep the J. he mighta folded with A5, cause all he had was a flush draw at that point. Look, he was blind stealing with an Ace rag. a call and then a strong cbet, cause u act first would have given him pause. maybe not, but if he came over its an easy fold, and if he calls it , its an easy fold if the turn does not improve you. or u might try another turn bet if the flush heart did not hit, and u wanna rep the J again, he prob folds 50% of time to the flop c bet , or calls or comes over you. a turn c-bet prob get him to fold 75% of the time cause he only has the pair of 5's, and there are 3 overs out there that you are repping by your betting. that is the EV+ plus way to play.

Instead u chose the flip play of the all in with a player that had u covered in stack size without a made pair. yeah, ugh

[ND1991]

Well I put him on A rag and did not think he would call and if he did I figured I would be about a 3.75 to 1 favorite. I'll take those odds, they just sometimes do not work out.

Possibly discretion is the better play here, but getting your chips in pre-flop when your opponent has 3 outs, I do not think that is a bad position to be in.

But I do absolutely appreciate your viewpoint. Always good to learn so thank you!

[madjek]

I have to agree with Villa. In tournament poker, I don't think it's always about getting your money in with the best odds. The problem is, even though you win that hand 70% of the time, if you come across that same situation twice, you lose 1 or both times 50% of the time. So if you are pushing allin every time you think you have your opponent dominated, unless you are big stacked, you are going to lose a good percentage of the time. Chances of winning 3 times being 70% fav drop to 1 in 3. So I think its often better to try and see a flop and play poker. Though I can't blame you with the blinds that high, I just prefer to try and win it after the flop.

[kingmotan]

lol ND made the 100% correct play there. And there is no poker to be played when you get to 12 - 15BB in a SNG. It's all about shoving ranges.

[Peteyweestro]

Besides i sometimes get scared that if i let the players see the flop they will see what it is they need to beat me,lol at least thats how it normally goes so i woulda prolly shoved also

[villaridge]

kingmotan, I respect you as a player, you do damn good. But I think you are soooooo wrong saying that the AQ push was 100% correct. It's a strong drawing hand in short handed. It's not just about sh and blinds. you gotta look at ur relative position to the other stacks. Hero was basically tied for 2nd of the 4 left. Yeah, its time to play poker instead of seeing high paint and say wtf, and push all in. It would be different if Hero was SS in a 4 player game, that changes the EV equation, and Hero should push with AQ off. but he was not SS, he was sitting 3rd, very close to 2nd, and striking distance of 1st. 4th was lagging badly. so if this is a SNG, prob pays top 3. I think it is idiotic to push here as he does. It's a bad play to push all in, in that position. You say "shoving ranges". lol, shoving ranges are just one of the tools to know about, you don't risk your T life on any one poker tool. and going all in with AQ off, even with putting the $400 raiser on A rag was nothing more than giving up, and seeing what luck delivered. a SS can do that, where he was at the time makes it a 0% wrong play, IMHO

[Elbarad]

Were there only 5 people left in the tourny? Or was that just at your table?

If there were only 5 players left, and you were 3rd... I might have been tempted to see if I could outlast those other guys to get higher payout.

I probably would not have shoved unless of course that player had been making moves that made me think he was just restealing... which he was.

[villaridge]

and for peteyweestro. Been there done that. think again bud. Look at it this way, are you a pre-flop player only , or a pre-flop AND post-flop player? If you limit your play to only pre-flop decisions with an attitude that you make decisions based on being scared of the other player seeing the flop, well hell. think about it

[Peteyweestro]

I will say that i am both pre and post flop, its just that alot of the times when you don't go real strong then allow the others to see their cards your asking to get sucked out, i know because as much as i been sucked out i have also done the sucking but i do see your point about it being situational to your chip stack and position in the game, hell if i was close to cashing i prolly would have played it just like what your saying in all honesty and if i was ss i surely would have shoved so yea its all about position and stack size as well as tourny flow