Rewarded for a terrible play IMHO...

[beanfacekilla]

I was not invloved in this, but I just thought it was worthy of a bit of discussion. I think this is reckless and stupid, but the player is rewarded for his bad play (my opinion that this is a bad play, no insult intended to anyone reading). Look....

Bodog - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3:
SB: $31.95
BB: $29.35
UTG: $36.15
UTG+1: $16.73
MP: $11.22
MP+1: $23.75
CO: $34.20
Hero (BTN): $23.90
SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25
Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has Th 8c
fold, fold, MP calls $0.25, MP+1 calls $0.25, fold, Hero calls $0.25, fold, BB raises to $2.50, fold, MP+1 calls $2.25, fold
Flop: ($5.60, 2 players) 2s Qc 9d
BB bets $5.00, MP+1 raises to $21.25 and is all-in, BB calls $16.25
Turn: ($48.10, 2 players) 8s
River: ($48.10, 2 players) 6s
BB shows Kd Ks (One Pair, Kings) (PreFlop 83%, Flop 73%, Turn 0%)
MP+1 shows Tc Jc (Straight, Queen High) (PreFlop 17%, Flop 27%, Turn 100%)
MP+1 wins $45.70

It just amazes me.... If I were to even chase that, I would hardly ever get it, but he turns it, doesn't even have to sweat it. Also, I wouldn't call such a large bet with J-10 suited (perhaps I am a bit too tight?). Oh well, good for him I suppose. Peace.

[Assistanc3]

I dunno if I call it reckless, its not the worst play I have ever seen, sure I have done alot worse

possible the player is just a gambler, maybe they are playing below their bankroll, tilt

perhaps I am a bit too tight?

At those blind levels (most sites) that is when players are often not tight enough and you see a lot of gamble for some decent size pots. If you go up to the $50 - $100 NL (open a table and watch for a bit ((take some notes too)) you will see some really tight poker.

[scrawnybob]

hi

not sure if I had read the HH correctly but IMHO the guy with 10J suited bet the flop hoping to induce a fold

thats that way I would have looked at it ... (and possibly played it too - sorry)

preflop it looks like the other guy has a pair (or maybe AK) raising

so our hero / baddie calls a raise preflop with an interesting hand (not great but not totally terrible IF he figures his post flop play is good)

flop comes down pretty favourably for the 10J with an open ended straight draw ... seeing the other guy bet out $5 into a $5.60 pot I think he has maybe read this as a weaker pocket pair or definately wanting to make a healthy bet to put off chasers (which technically he is) ...

so the $5 bet makes is uneconomic to call just to chase the straight BUT IMHO it also has triggered the baddie to think a big re-raise over the top is going to induce a fold from the stronger but potentially weak hand

ok he had KK so with cards up it was pretty unlikely he would fold but I think this could have been a very effective bet to pretty much all weaker hands

if you had say QA or 9A or AK or even JJ KK you really are going to think twice about calling when your $5 bet has been met with a +$16 re-raise for all your money

alot of the time that play would have induced a fold and raked a nice pot for the guy with 10J

its not always what you have - its what you figure they have and even more importantly figuring what they dont want you to have but will put you on with the right looking bets

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

[beanfacekilla]

hi

not sure if I had read the HH correctly but IMHO the guy with 10J suited bet the flop hoping to induce a fold

thats that way I would have looked at it ... (and possibly played it too - sorry)

preflop it looks like the other guy has a pair (or maybe AK) raising

so our hero / baddie calls a raise preflop with an interesting hand (not great but not totally terrible IF he figures his post flop play is good)

flop comes down pretty favourably for the 10J with an open ended straight draw ... seeing the other guy bet out $5 into a $5.60 pot I think he has maybe read this as a weaker pocket pair or definately wanting to make a healthy bet to put off chasers (which technically he is) ...

so the $5 bet makes is uneconomic to call just to chase the straight BUT IMHO it also has triggered the baddie to think a big re-raise over the top is going to induce a fold from the stronger but potentially weak hand

ok he had KK so with cards up it was pretty unlikely he would fold but I think this could have been a very effective bet to pretty much all weaker hands

if you had say QA or 9A or AK or even JJ KK you really are going to think twice about calling when your $5 bet has been met with a +$16 re-raise for all your money

alot of the time that play would have induced a fold and raked a nice pot for the guy with 10J

its not always what you have - its what you figure they have and even more importantly figuring what they dont want you to have but will put you on with the right looking bets

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

This is why I joined here, to learn. All of you have such insightful and wise things to say. I value the input. But, whenever I try to do the same thing, I miss and lose a bunch. I have had str8 and flush draws on rflop many times, and seems if I chase, I never get them. But then when I fold, they come. Perhaps I should raise more on draws? This has got me seond guessing everything now... Peace.

[Assistanc3]

way to much emotion is what is killing you

Your a roller coaster with your high and lows from session after session and not allowing for the long term numbers to kick in. Taking down a tournament for a nice cashing should at-least cover a week of suck-outs.

patience

[beanfacekilla]

way to much emotion is what is killing you

Your a roller coaster with your high and lows from session after session and not allowing for the long term numbers to kick in. Taking down a tournament for a nice cashing should at-least cover a week of suck-outs.

patience

Yes yes, you are right. Patience is the key. Thanx dude sometimes I do need a reminder... Peace and all that. I am going to get some sleep. Another day...

[Poker Orifice]

hi

not sure if I had read the HH correctly but IMHO the guy with 10J suited bet the flop hoping to induce a fold

thats that way I would have looked at it ... (and possibly played it too - sorry)

preflop it looks like the other guy has a pair (or maybe AK) raising

so our hero / baddie calls a raise preflop with an interesting hand (not great but not totally terrible IF he figures his post flop play is good)

flop comes down pretty favourably for the 10J with an open ended straight draw ... seeing the other guy bet out $5 into a $5.60 pot I think he has maybe read this as a weaker pocket pair or definately wanting to make a healthy bet to put off chasers (which technically he is) ...

so the $5 bet makes is uneconomic to call just to chase the straight BUT IMHO it also has triggered the baddie to think a big re-raise over the top is going to induce a fold from the stronger but potentially weak hand

ok he had KK so with cards up it was pretty unlikely he would fold but I think this could have been a very effective bet to pretty much all weaker hands

if you had say QA or 9A or AK or even JJ KK you really are going to think twice about calling when your $5 bet has been met with a +$16 re-raise for all your money

alot of the time that play would have induced a fold and raked a nice pot for the guy with 10J

its not always what you have - its what you figure they have and even more importantly figuring what they dont want you to have but will put you on with the right looking bets

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

Totally agree!!

[Poker Orifice]

This is why I joined here, to learn. All of you have such insightful and wise things to say. I value the input. But, whenever I try to do the same thing, I miss and lose a bunch. I have had str8 and flush draws on rflop many times, and seems if I chase, I never get them. But then when I fold, they come. Perhaps I should raise more on draws? This has got me seond guessing everything now... Peace.

You want to be raising in certain circumstances (& don't forget that tournament play & cashgame play are two very different games). You want to be raising in spots where by doing so you might be getting to see the turn for free (ie. if you raise the flop, villain might check it to you on the turn) also as a semi-bluff where you're getting villain to laydown better hands that would have showdown value.