IS fear keeping me from being a Millionaire PO

[Dan Abnormal]

SO FOLKS IS FEAR KEEPING ME FROM MAKING THE MILLIONS I SHOULD BE MAKING ONLINE

THis hand is a perfect example - DID I PUSH too hard even though a flush was present, but now I think He thought I had a flush and whatcha think he had to bet like that

PokerStars Game #60076150409: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2011/03/30 17:04:33 ET
Table 'Leo Minor XI' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: daveyjh ($5 in chips)
Seat 2: Shawn Vinyl ($2 in chips)
Seat 3: stax25 ($2.45 in chips)
Seat 4: rantertx ($4.18 in chips)
Seat 5: NikolayTim ($1.80 in chips)
Seat 6: JPCOMPARSA ($4.94 in chips)
Seat 7: Qsto ($1.28 in chips)
Seat 8: FlWayne1029 ($0.70 in chips)
Seat 9: bulbb ($5.13 in chips)
rantertx: posts small blind $0.01
NikolayTim: posts big blind $0.02
JPCOMPARSA: posts small & big blinds $0.03
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Shawn Vinyl [Th Td]
JPCOMPARSA: checks
Qsto: folds
FlWayne1029: calls $0.02
bulbb: folds
daveyjh: folds
Shawn Vinyl: raises $0.10 to $0.12
stax25: folds
rantertx: folds
NikolayTim: folds
JPCOMPARSA: calls $0.10
FlWayne1029: folds
*** FLOP *** [3s Js Ts]
JPCOMPARSA: bets $0.15
Shawn Vinyl: raises $1.73 to $1.88 and is all-in
JPCOMPARSA: folds
Uncalled bet ($1.73) returned to Shawn Vinyl
Shawn Vinyl collected $0.58 from pot
Shawn Vinyl: shows [Th Td] (three of a kind, Tens)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.60 | Rake $0.02
Board [3s Js Ts]
Seat 1: daveyjh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Shawn Vinyl collected ($0.58)
Seat 3: stax25 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rantertx (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: NikolayTim (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: JPCOMPARSA folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Qsto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: FlWayne1029 folded before Flop
Seat 9: bulbb folded before Flop (didn't bet)


BY THE WAY THE PREFLOP RAISE 3x + 1BB for EACH LIMPER, IF it doesent equal that It was supposed to but I was time pressured

Was raising over 1.50 on a flush draw board STUPID or should I checked out the next card.

GIVE ME THE GOOD GIVE ME THE BAD HE RAISED 2/3 pot POST FLOP MAN I FUCKED THIS HAND UP


SERIOUSLY IF their wasnt 3 spades on the flop I would let this dude lead me the whole way, but of course there had to be 3 spades and he probably had 1 HIGH SPADE to call that incredible .12 preflop bet so did I want to shut this down or did I play DUMMY POKER

WAIT now was his POST FLOP BET just probing me for info and I basically panic'd and said YES I HAVE A FLUSH but I didnt, OR was he chasing a flush but IF He had a high flush card, did my bet make him assume I had the flush MY ASSUMPTION IS HE WAS CHASING A FLUSH and I MADE IT TOO HIGH FOR HIM TO CHASE or ya think maybe he a JACK I DUNNO YALL ARE THE MONEY MAKERS HERE HELP

[madjek]

I'm not much of a cash game player, but I'll give you my 2 cents anyway. His .15 bet was a bad bet if he was chasing a flush. Maybe he was hoping you'd fold and if not at least he had outs. My guess is he had the J and was hoping you had the flush draw and would just call. Pushin allin would give you one of two results, either he has J and gives you no more money, or he has flush, calls and you lose a lot of money. I'll let PO tell us the best way to have proceeded, cause I'm a chicken too and would of done the same thing you did, then 2nd guessed myself aftr it was over.

[Poker Orifice]

SO FOLKS IS FEAR KEEPING ME FROM MAKING THE MILLIONS I SHOULD BE MAKING ONLINE

THis hand is a perfect example - DID I PUSH too hard even though a flush was present, but now I think He thought I had a flush and whatcha think he had to bet like that

PokerStars Game #60076150409: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2011/03/30 17:04:33 ET
Table 'Leo Minor XI' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: daveyjh ($5 in chips)
Seat 2: Shawn Vinyl ($2 in chips)
Seat 3: stax25 ($2.45 in chips)
Seat 4: rantertx ($4.18 in chips)
Seat 5: NikolayTim ($1.80 in chips)
Seat 6: JPCOMPARSA ($4.94 in chips)
Seat 7: Qsto ($1.28 in chips)
Seat 8: FlWayne1029 ($0.70 in chips)
Seat 9: bulbb ($5.13 in chips)
rantertx: posts small blind $0.01
NikolayTim: posts big blind $0.02
JPCOMPARSA: posts small & big blinds $0.03
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Shawn Vinyl [Th Td]
JPCOMPARSA: checks
Qsto: folds
FlWayne1029: calls $0.02
bulbb: folds
daveyjh: folds
Shawn Vinyl: raises $0.10 to $0.12
stax25: folds
rantertx: folds
NikolayTim: folds
JPCOMPARSA: calls $0.10
FlWayne1029: folds
*** FLOP *** [3s Js Ts]
JPCOMPARSA: bets $0.15
Shawn Vinyl: raises $1.73 to $1.88 and is all-in
JPCOMPARSA: folds
Uncalled bet ($1.73) returned to Shawn Vinyl
Shawn Vinyl collected $0.58 from pot
Shawn Vinyl: shows [Th Td] (three of a kind, Tens)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.60 | Rake $0.02
Board [3s Js Ts]
Seat 1: daveyjh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Shawn Vinyl collected ($0.58)
Seat 3: stax25 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rantertx (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: NikolayTim (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: JPCOMPARSA folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Qsto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: FlWayne1029 folded before Flop
Seat 9: bulbb folded before Flop (didn't bet)


BY THE WAY THE PREFLOP RAISE 3x + 1BB for EACH LIMPER, < raising 3x +1bb for each limper (or 2.5x +1bb for each limper) is geared more towards 'tournament play'. In a cash game (espec. micro stakes) you'll often be wanting to make bigger raises prelop (ie. on some sites preflop raises are closer to 4-5x pre.. others it's 3x).... also depends on your table (& villain in hand). ALOT of micro stakes players will always call a raise after they've put anything into the pot (& often they'll do so out of position or w/o imp. odds).
Was raising over 1.50 on a flush draw board STUPID or should I checked out the next card.

GIVE ME THE GOOD GIVE ME THE BAD HE RAISED 2/3 pot POST FLOP MAN I FUCKED THIS HAND UP


SERIOUSLY IF their wasnt 3 spades on the flop I would let this dude lead me the whole way, but of course there had to be 3 spades and he probably had 1 HIGH SPADE to call that incredible .12 preflop bet so did I want to shut this down or did I play DUMMY POKER

WAIT now was his POST FLOP BET just probing me for info and I basically panic'd and said YES I HAVE A FLUSH but I didnt, OR was he chasing a flush but IF He had a high flush card, did my bet make him assume I had the flush MY ASSUMPTION IS HE WAS CHASING A FLUSH and I MADE IT TOO HIGH FOR HIM TO CHASE or ya think maybe he a JACK I DUNNO YALL ARE THE MONEY MAKERS HERE HELP

I'll comment more in a moment.. just don't want the site to time out.. sigh

[Poker Orifice]

First thing I notice about the hand is > this player has 'posted' before BB is on them (so I'm a) assuming he's just joined your table & b) is likely a rookie because he didn't wait for BB to post.
Another 'tell' right off is the size of stack he brings to the table > 35bb's. This is a poor stack size to play with on any table (imo). He won't be able to call preflop getting implied odds with sm pp & SC's, etc. because his stack isn't deep enough (for the times he does hit his monster & stacks off opponent). This would lead me to believe he's not overly experienced.
His hand wasn't good enough to raise with from UTG.. but he seems content on calling your raise while out of position (to me this looks like the type of player who can't fold once they've invested something preflop... but you never know. It might even be a player holding a monster who is hoping to trap the raiser or to reraise once someone raises. I'm leaning towards the 'weaker holding' for him, due stuff listed above that would have me assuming that he's a newer player.
Flop, villain leads out for a 1/2pot bet. What range of hands do we put him on here?
This is a REALLY draw heavy board. Not only for the fact of there being two spades but typically a flop with J-T-x is hitting alot of hands (ie. KQ, AJ, KJ, AT, QT... the types of hands alot of players will call raises with (but not reraise with)).
"IF" villain had a solid made hand I'd guess they'd lead out with a bet a bit larger than 1/2 pot as they'd want to charge the draws here. If they held a really strong draw I'd be thinking they'd more likely check-raise allin (they're not that deep & once you lead out if they've checked to you they'll have a decent size left behind to fire a checkraise allin with). Instead they lead out for 1/2 pot???
Hard to say really what that represents (remember.... I'm thinking they're a newer type player). It actually looks kinda bluffy to me? I suppose they might do this with As.
"IF" villain was sitting on 100bb's I'd raise a decent amount here in your spot DanAbs (but not allin). (villain might also have something like KsJx).
When I'm raising here I'm not doing so to 'make villain fold'. I'm raising so that I can hopefully get all of villain's chips into the middle (maybe the shove is the way to go? hard to say because villain's stack size isn't very deep). Actually, you probably really only can just ship it here (I mean any raise wouldn't really invited villain to rrai over you because they wouldn't have fold equity.. 'calling' seems kinda lame because we're letting villain get there for nothing if they're holding a big draw... so I guess really all we can hope for is that they do have a strong enough hand that they call when we shove).

[Poker Orifice]

SO FOLKS IS FEAR KEEPING ME FROM MAKING THE MILLIONS I SHOULD BE MAKING ONLINE

THis hand is a perfect example - DID I PUSH too hard even though a flush was present, but now I think He thought I had a flush and whatcha think he had to bet like that

PokerStars Game #60076150409: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2011/03/30 17:04:33 ET
Table 'Leo Minor XI' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: daveyjh ($5 in chips)
Seat 2: Shawn Vinyl ($2 in chips)
Seat 3: stax25 ($2.45 in chips)
Seat 4: rantertx ($4.18 in chips)
Seat 5: NikolayTim ($1.80 in chips)
Seat 6: JPCOMPARSA ($4.94 in chips)
Seat 7: Qsto ($1.28 in chips)
Seat 8: FlWayne1029 ($0.70 in chips)
Seat 9: bulbb ($5.13 in chips)
rantertx: posts small blind $0.01
NikolayTim: posts big blind $0.02
JPCOMPARSA: posts small & big blinds $0.03
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Shawn Vinyl [Th Td]
JPCOMPARSA: checks
Qsto: folds
FlWayne1029: calls $0.02
bulbb: folds
daveyjh: folds
Shawn Vinyl: raises $0.10 to $0.12
stax25: folds
rantertx: folds
NikolayTim: folds
JPCOMPARSA: calls $0.10
FlWayne1029: folds
*** FLOP *** [3s Js Ts]
JPCOMPARSA: bets $0.15
Shawn Vinyl: raises $1.73 to $1.88 and is all-in
JPCOMPARSA: folds
Uncalled bet ($1.73) returned to Shawn Vinyl
Shawn Vinyl collected $0.58 from pot
Shawn Vinyl: shows [Th Td] (three of a kind, Tens)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.60 | Rake $0.02
Board [3s Js Ts]
Seat 1: daveyjh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Shawn Vinyl collected ($0.58)
Seat 3: stax25 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rantertx (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: NikolayTim (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: JPCOMPARSA folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Qsto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: FlWayne1029 folded before Flop
Seat 9: bulbb folded before Flop (didn't bet)


BY THE WAY THE PREFLOP RAISE 3x + 1BB for EACH LIMPER, IF it doesent equal that It was supposed to but I was time pressured

Was raising over 1.50 on a flush draw board STUPID or should I checked out the next card.

GIVE ME THE GOOD GIVE ME THE BAD HE RAISED 2/3 pot POST FLOP MAN I FUCKED THIS HAND UP


SERIOUSLY IF their wasnt 3 spades on the flop I would let this dude lead me the whole way, < DanAbs.. lose the 'whatifs' It's not relevant & you obv. wouldn't be posting the hand then if that were the case.. so.. fuhged abow dit! but of course there had to be 3 spades and he probably had 1 HIGH SPADE to call that incredible .12 preflop bet < auto-assuming he has 1 high spade in his hand because of his preflop call? how does that fit his range of hands? so did I want to shut this down or did I play DUMMY POKER

WAIT now was his POST FLOP BET just probing me for info < he's leading into the preflop raiser which 'typically' is just odd.. although this isn't your typical flop either. It'd lead me to believe he has a J in his hand (maybe KJ type of hand.. the type of hand a rookie would not want to fold preflop, regardless of position, etc. once they've invested anything pre (see one of my posts above.. the 'type' of player I'm assuming this (esp. because we have no other reads on them as it'd seem that they just joined your table. If that's not the case then you should perhaps try to give us an idea of how they play from prior hands observed) and I basically panic'd and said YES I HAVE A FLUSH < is this how you'd play it 'if' you 'did' have the flush? AND, what range of hand (preflop) would you have that you raised big with that would put you on a flush now? (I'd assume because of your big raise, that if you did have a flush it'd likely be the NUTS.. AsQs, AsKs as those are likely hands you'd raise big with pre.. and only ones that now make a flush on the flop. but I didnt, OR was he chasing a flush (< I think the word 'chasing' is actually used incorrectly in alot of spots. ie. for me.. hearing 'chasing' sounds more like when villain is 'calling' bets w/o good odds (not raising or leading out, etc.) but IF He had a high flush card, did my bet make him assume I had the flush < if he held a High Flush card (ie. As.. Ks) then I'd think that he would assume that FOR SURE you DID NOT have the flush (because what other hands would fit your action preflop that would make a flush on the flop if he's holding the As?) MY ASSUMPTION IS HE WAS CHASING A FLUSH < how is this 'chasing' when he's leading out on the flop? and I MADE IT TOO HIGH FOR HIM TO CHASE < 'if' he held the As there, do you think he's ever folding to any raise/shove you make? (considering he's only sitting with 35bb's & he's already invested 1/3 of his stack). I highly doubt he's ever folding even if As is all he's holding. (he might have KsJx though but if he did I think he's still going to call the shove) or ya think maybe he a JACK I DUNNO YALL ARE THE MONEY MAKERS HERE HELP

Once he folds I'm assuming he had something like QJ (no spades).. or 'maybe' KJ (no spades).
I think because of what he's 'likely' holding there (before we see him fold to our shove obviously), you really need to just get it in. If you think there's any chance he's shoving over a minclick raise then perhaps that'd be the way to go (but doubt he'd be that bad because he wouldn't have enough chips behind to think you're ever folding when he 4bets allin over your raise).
I also think the shove is good here because he might actually think that YOU are holding only the As (or something like AsKh... where you're drawing to the nutflush & 2 overs & then if he's got something like QJ, KJ he might make the call.

[Poker Orifice]

I wish I'd edited my post before posting it instead of fearing the site timing out on me because there's a few things I'd add (& stuff I accidentally left out).
ie. "would you play the hand this way if in fact you did flop the flush?" & "what sort of flush would you even have here except for the nuts (based on your preflop raise) AsKs AsQs. I doubt you'd ever be re-raising Allin here with the nutflush vs. villain's 1/2pot cbet? (so I highly doubt that villain will assume you have flopped the nutflush here... ever!).

[beanfacekilla]

Dan/Rob: I think you made a wise move just taking it down right there. Yes you could have lost if he did flop the nut flush, but his postflop bet would indicate to me that he did not flop a flush. And PO makes a good point about his buy in, and him not waiting for the BB to get to him. I agree with the statement that villain is a rookie poker player. For sure, no patience, no common sense. PO said he had 35BB's?? If you are gonna sit at a ring game, you should buy in with the max, every time (IMHO).

If he held an ace of spades, he would have called for sure. And then hopefully turn a heart, river a spade that pairs the board. Then villain would be like "OH YEAH, Oh shit oh no!" LOL. Peace.

[kingmotan]

First thing I notice about the hand is > this player has 'posted' before BB is on them (so I'm a) assuming he's just joined your table & b) is likely a rookie because he didn't wait for BB to post.
Another 'tell' right off is the size of stack he brings to the table > 35bb's. This is a poor stack size to play with on any table (imo).

no no no.
when someone posts sb&bb they are returning after being sitting out and missing the BB. When someone comes to the table and posts before big blind they are asked to post only BB not sb, but I'm sure you knew that.
Seat 6: JPCOMPARSA ($4.94 in chips) that means he had 247BB, not 35 lol.
Also, villain didn't cbet. That's called a donk bet.
Please don't post while playing PO

PO said he had 35BB's?? If you are gonna sit at a ring game, you should buy in with the max, every time (IMHO).

You're right beanfacekilla u should buyin for the max if you think you have an edge over the players and can play with them deep, but also you should read the HH yourself and see exactly how things went. If Po said he had 35bb you should check that yourself, especially since the min buyin at that limit is 40bb.

[beanfacekilla]

no no no.
when someone posts sb&bb they are returning after being sitting out and missing the BB. When someone comes to the table and posts before big blind they are asked to post only BB not sb, but I'm sure you knew that.
Seat 6: JPCOMPARSA ($4.94 in chips) that means he had 247BB, not 35 lol.
Also, villain didn't cbet. That's called a donk bet.
Please don't post while playing PO

You're right beanfacekilla u should buyin for the max if you think you have an edge over the players and can play with them deep, but also you should read the HH yourself and see exactly how things went. If Po said he had 35bb you should check that yourself, especially since the min buyin at that limit is 40bb.

Yeah you're right. I just skimmed over the post, and didn't really read it. Obviously, I didn't put much thought into the 35 BB's. For example, a 2c/5c table, max buy in is $5 (100 BB's), and min is $2 (40 BB's).

I just skimmed PO's post and went from that. Good post Kingmotan. Peace.

[Dan Abnormal]

OK VERY COOL EVERYONE, thanks not much else to this hand, I was just wondering if I played it right.

PO asked would I pushed if I had a flush, As long as I had higher than a Q high flush Id try to milk each street and let the guy lead me and just hope he wouldnt turn over a better flush. IF no more spades hit the board and I hadnt pushed all in, Im would of slow played it down each bet

I guess we can move on to other hands, but it would be better if we could go with some simplier hands then that q vs k vs a flush hand on our other thread. but some good hands with some good probe bets that arent too clear would be great (PO OR BEAN OR ANYONE)

I gotta quit being such a WUSS and buy in for real amounts, yall were slamming that dude for his buy in, hell I only bought in for an extra 20 (a big 2.00) buyins YOU know maybe I need to learn some real lessons and quit playing these ultra low stakes, maybe hit 10-25nl (or whatever that stake level is). Maybe if I feel the pain of losing real money I will get my game right, but damn that is losing real money BUT IF IM PLAYING RIGHT DAMNIT I SHOULD BE WINNING MONEY. Like CHARLIE SHEEN duh WINNING