Did I play this hand wrong?

[EllaGrace]

ellagrace
Posts: n/a


Did I play this wrong? HELP!
Full Tilt Poker Game #6671011090: - No Limit Hold'em - 22:19:33 ET - 2008/06/02
Seat 1: ericthegreat (6,034)
Seat 2: Pappa Grizz (827), is sitting out
Seat 3: jesterwiz (690)
Seat 4: moronremover (10,244)
Seat 5: rookie0674 (5,081)
Seat 7: MasterchiefOSX (615), is sitting out
Seat 8: ellagrace (10,079)
Seat 9: thmocat (6,140)
moronremover posts the small blind of 80
rookie0674 posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ellagrace [Kh Jc]
MasterchiefOSX folds
ellagrace calls 160
thmocat has 15 seconds left to act
thmocat folds
ericthegreat raises to 320
Pappa Grizz folds
jesterwiz folds
moronremover calls 240
rookie0674 calls 160
ellagrace calls 160
*** FLOP *** [Ah Jh 8s]
moronremover checks
rookie0674 checks
ellagrace checks
ericthegreat checks
*** TURN *** [Ah Jh 8s] [Js]

It cutoff so I will have to finish.

I bet pot 1290.

Eric calls, every one else folds.

River- 9h

I go all in (i put him on an ace)

Eric shows Q10 and wins with a straight.

Should I have bet harder on the turn?

I only bet light on the turn b/c i didn't want to scare him off. On the river, I only went all in b/c I clearly read him wrong

[GypsyTea]

katharine.wehrmann@gmail.;36257]ellagrace
Posts: n/a


Did I play this wrong? HELP!

Full Tilt Poker Game #6671011090: - No Limit Hold'em - 22:19:33 ET - 2008/06/02

OK Guys if I am going to do many more of thease can we put:-

1.what the buy in is ( I dont care if its freeroll) and

2. How many starting chips you got for the buy-in, Thanks.


Seat 1: ericthegreat (6,034)
Seat 2: Pappa Grizz (827), is sitting out----->low stack

Seat 3: jesterwiz (690)------------------->low stack

Seat 4: moronremover (10,244)-----------> TABLE CHIP DADDY
Seat 5: rookie0674 (5,081)

Seat 7: MasterchiefOSX (615), is sitting out--->low stack

Seat 8: ellagrace (10,079)--------------->HERO

Seat 9: thmocat (6,140)
moronremover posts the small blind of 80
rookie0674 posts the big blind of 160------>combine blinds 240
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to ellagrace [Kh Jc]

MasterchiefOSX foldsUTG?---------->UTG

ellagrace calls 160------------------>UTG+1 Kh Jc pot 400

thmocat has 15 seconds left to act
thmocat folds

ericthegreat raises to 320------------>3/4 pot raise his stack is 6034chips-----M=25: Whats hand has he got?
This is a very strange bet: Its not an isolation bet. It looks like a pot building bet, which would normal indecate a drawing hand suited..AXs Kxs ??s ??s Mid PP----->anyway I can put him on a hand.

Pappa Grizz folds
jesterwiz folds
moronremover calls 240---->SB------>Dont Know what you have here but with you chip stack it dosn't matter: Blind Defence.
rookie0674 calls 160------->BB This is a fair one as well, read above.

ellagrace calls 160-------->KJo..10K+chips; M=41.6...POT=1120:
OK just my 2c so dont take this personal Babee, I dont like your hand, I dont like your position, I love your "M", I hate all the callers in this pot with "our" hand. Question Do "We" need the agro from it all? If I am reading this right its a Tourny not cash, Yes? if so why dont we fold and let the others nuke them selves, some one may get rid of 2 players out of the tourny here! All thease players, I have to give some one credit for a PP no matter how small and some one MUST have Ax, I FOLD

*** FLOP *** [Ah Jh 8s]
moronremover checks
rookie0674 checks
ellagrace checks------> OK we didnt fold and hit 2nd pair, I never check twice in any pot no matter if I hit or I didnt ( I learnt that from Dave Ulliot aka Devilfish. I bet just over the pot, to see where I am in the pot, and Represent the Ace! I bet ( cos we didnt fold) 1500 chips. I would also be throwing a reverse tell out I am strong by looking at any players chips hard who looks like they are going to call!!!!!!!
ericthegreat checks
*** TURN *** [Ah Jh 8s] [Js]

It cutoff so I will have to finish.

I bet pot 1290.-------> you should of bet that last time + a little-----> now I would put him all in!

Eric calls, every one else folds.

River- 9h----I cant say from here what would of happened

I go all in (i put him on an ace)

Eric shows Q10 and wins with a straight.

Should I have bet harder on the turn?

I only bet light on the turn b/c i didn't want to scare him off. On the river, I only went all in b/c I clearly read him wrong

.................................................. ...................

Did you play it wrong? Yes sorry kid I would have played it diffrent and I not being personal, you did ask.

Get back to me with your comments, because its easy for me to pontificate from here, when I wasnt in the hand or the game, and didnt know how ever one played so back to you.

Regards

Gypsy

[scrawnybob]

hi

great comments from GT (not much I could add) and its always useful IMHO for everyone to be able to read the thought processes going on - even if they dont agree and would still want to play the hand their way again - it's exposure to thinking that makes us all think more ... and that is vital for poker I think

generally I would say I dont like hands going to the river - unless I really have a neck hold on the hand

I would much much rather semi bluff on the flop - and either take down a nice pot on a semi bluff or a half made hand (against another less confident half made hand) ...

than let the hand go on and let the other player catchup a bit (these situations are pretty marginal at the best of times) or keep putting money into a pot that I've already lost from the flop onwards anyway

So I think I would have to agree with GT - no checking on the flop - either represent a better hand than you have or at least represent the hand you have got being confident that you are ahead ... if they come back at you then you at least have a chance to get out cheaper than slowly boiling yourself like a frog going to the river.

with two suited pictures, one an ace on the flop you can be pretty sure someone has something - the question you need to ask yourself and the table on the flop is ... have you got enough to want to pay more to see more cards ? ... or have you just got enough to want to chase if I give you the opportunity

by making a bet on the flop (decent size or even a searching / suspicious bet) you are putting the ball in their court ... "do you feel lucky punk to chase or call with a not too good hand?" ... make them know that they will be paying to play for every card that comes

checking is IMHO something to be reserved only to total lock down hands or occasional tricky play ... I would much rather bet (anything / something) than check - even a 1BB bet puts people on a back foot - a check is a free card for the taking ... no-one ever passes that up (generally)

in terms of finding out information or where you stand in a hand I find a check will generally tell you less than zero ... if they have a hand they might be worried they scare you off ... so they check or if they have no hand or half a hand they are more than happy to check and see a free card

check only if you have control / a plan and that you know they will do exactly what you want them to do (eg. make the bet for you so you can re-raise or keep them feeling they are in control when they are not)

cheers scrawnybob

[EllaGrace]

Okay,

Here we go with my explanation of my reads, which aren't very strong since I had just moved to the table.

Raise preflop: A-X, Which is what I had put him on.
Every one else, well i didn't really care, they didn't mattet after the turn

As far as my betting: The pot sized bet on the turn made him commit a 1/3 of his chip stack, so I again didn't pit him on a heart draw, combined with his preflop raise

As far as the straight goes, really? Everyone should read straight draw with AJ8? B/c I sure don't freak out over every gut shot draw I could contemplate.

My biggest mistake here, I believe, was not betting enough on the turn,, due to a misread.

I got my hand bit for trapping. I don't usually trap but, the table I had just came from was very tight, and you only gained chips through check raising, or trapping. So it had become my method of choice for this tourney.

My mistake here was assuming this table was the same. Clearly despite his chipstack, he was still a very loose caller, willing to commit one third his stack, looking for only one card to save him.

It is easy to critisize when you see the result already, however, i don't think AJ8 screams straight draw to anybody.


Thanks for the advice

I

[scrawnybob]

hi

maybe I'm a bit conservative (well I know I'm pretty much the reverse as I play alot more hands in certain games - so not ultra tight)

but

with Ace and a Jack or any other two cards 10 or above ... I would always highly consider straight draws ... as alot of players will limp or call raises with two cards higher than 10 ... as I think you were playing KJ

look at it like this if the flop had come down Q 10 and not ace jack - you would have been on a fat open ended straight draw ... so you have to consider other players could have played similar hands

most players will fold real junk ... but will often want to (and not necessarily incorrectly) play any two cards 10 or higher

added to that in the Ace Jack 8 flop ... two are suited

so again their is a real possiblity of someone staying in on a flush draw

and possibly they could have a flush and a straight draw - thats why getting dealt suited cards ten or higher are potentially very very playable ... and equally very costly

and also why you need to be very wary of these sorts of flops

if you originally put the other player on Ace x preflop ... then you need to either test them on the flop (personally I would want to do this cheaply) or consider folding

having them act after you and the ones infront of you checking - really made this a difficult hand to get excited about only holding middle pair

IF he had Ace x he was always going to want to bet out behind checks - but alot of players holding that hand would feel scared to bet - the check by him was another option with Acex

I guess even with the what if's I think making (any bet) instead of checking the flop was the best chance to sound people out cheaply

It's just a personal thing - but having checked on the flop I would have written off the hand beyond there in terms of making any bets to steal or represent ... as soon as the hand got expensive - fold

hope thats a help - and it's all good for getting everyone thinking

cheers scrawnybob

[kingjames07]

im not one for long drawn out explainations.....but with a 10k stack considering the other stacks at the table and it was a freeroll i go atleast pot bet on the flop and i would have for sure went all in on the turn...minding myself "what the hell it's a freeroll"...but that is just me



P.S: gotta add this was a railturd freeroll and most railturds are easy

[GypsyTea]

Okay,

Here we go with my explanation of my reads, which aren't very strong since I had just moved to the table.

Raise preflop: A-X, Which is what I had put him on.
Every one else, well i didn't really care, they didn't mattet after the turn

As far as my betting: The pot sized bet on the turn made him commit a 1/3 of his chip stack, so I again didn't pit him on a heart draw, combined with his preflop raise

As far as the straight goes, really? Everyone should read straight draw with AJ8? B/c I sure don't freak out over every gut shot draw I could contemplate.

My biggest mistake here, I believe, was not betting enough on the turn,, due to a misread.

I got my hand bit for trapping. I don't usually trap but, the table I had just came from was very tight, and you only gained chips through check raising, or trapping. So it had become my method of choice for this tourney.

My mistake here was assuming this table was the same. Clearly despite his chipstack, he was still a very loose caller, willing to commit one third his stack, looking for only one card to save him.

It is easy to critisize when you see the result already, however, i don't think AJ8 screams straight draw to anybody.


Thanks for the advice

I

Hi Kath

Just like to say here:-
1. No ones Critisizing any thing.
2. I never look at the results in a hand history, I like to analyse the hand with out doing the end 1st.
3. Re the above, I get to be a better poker player if I do this, I am not in the habit of wasting my time or trying to look like a smart arse poker player.

Now to me your hand was "Trip Jacks" so to me I have to play my hand "Trip Jacks", not a want to be hand of a St8, you forgot the trip jacks and played the drawing hand, and THAT is your mistake in this hand in IMHO.

Please do not get snippy because you ask a question, and you do not like what other forum members write or think about your play.

Feel a Hug

Gypsy

[scrawnybob]

hi

definately healthy debate and input ...

alot of threads I've read maybe dont pull any punches but they're all useful advice ... even if the advice itself doesn't meet with agreement the important thing is to get the old grey matter going ... and maybe then other additional ideas come up as well

discussing hands after the event is always easier ... but that doesn't make posting afterthe event questions any less invaluable

I can remember seeing hands and advice coming from other members that has then made me think ... I was in a similar but different situation but if I'd applied "that" idea then ... then I'd have played / looked at it differently

so definately no one is getting snippy - I think especially posters like GT like to have as much info as possible and then they get right into posting an in depth reply ... always helpful even if the advice doesnt sit well at the time ;-)

cheers scrawnybob

[GypsyTea]

Eric calls, every one else folds.

It is easy to critisize when you see the result already,

Allready delt with.

however, i don't think AJ8 screams straight draw to anybody.

Sorry to me thats Exactly what it screems to Moi.

GT

[GypsyTea]

hi

definately healthy debate and input ...

alot of threads I've read maybe dont pull any punches but they're all useful advice ... even if the advice itself doesn't meet with agreement the important thing is to get the old grey matter going ... and maybe then other additional ideas come up as well

discussing hands after the event is always easier ... but that doesn't make posting afterthe event questions any less invaluable

I can remember seeing hands and advice coming from other members that has then made me think ... I was in a similar but different situation but if I'd applied "that" idea then ... then I'd have played / looked at it differently

so definately no one is getting snippy - I think especially posters like GT like to have as much info as possible and then they get right into posting an in depth reply ... always helpful even if the advice doesnt sit well at the time ;-)

cheers scrawnybob

Hi Bob

I agree with the above,

and offten I am not right, infact I rarely am right, because I never look at there hand till I post what I think.

When you guys post thease hands I live from the 1st word the hand IN REAL TIME!

Every time I set them out on my poker table, usually The Wife sets them out so theres no cheeting, and the way I write on the hand histroy is UNIQUE to The Gypsy

I try to get my head into the hand, this is a God send the computer/forum poker hand history's for study,

We get all the table out, all the chips out, and move them in, talk about the hand, kick around the playes, the profile of the players( what we think) we may not be correct, but hell We find it fun and very very EDUCATIONAL for US.

Regards All I am cool not snippy at ALL

GT