Alright need your advice on this one

[Disturbed]

Im too pissed to figure out what i did wrong. this was a stupid $10 tourney

If they told me I would be this aggrivated after the tournement I would have paid them $100 and told them to fuck off.

anyways here are two hands that I played with the same stupid guy

My hand KhQd - this is the third hand 10/20 blinds everybody is at 1500 chips except me and im at 2100 won a big first pot,

flop is 8sKcQs

I figure I have a nice two pair no need to make money of this and loose to a flush I bet 220 when the pot is only 120.

The moron thinks and calls

turn is 5h - 8sKcQs5h

I figure out that he is a moron from his nick - pot now at 560 - I bet 800 - moron calls with only 300 chips left

river 4s - 8sKcQs5h4s

Moron bets 300 I call he has Js9s.


My stack is demolished but I manage to get it back up to 1500.

This is like the 8-9th hand - blind 15/30

my hand Jc9h

flop 4s9s8d

Pot is at 220, I bet 260 - everybody folds except moron who calls

turn Jd - 4s9s8dJd

I figure here is another pair with two flush draws on the table and since, based on previous experience, the moron is probably buying another flush - I all - in so he if he intends to buy his flush, then let him but it very high this time.

Moron calls with QhTc making a straight. the river is shit and I am here.

Now I know the second hand - all-in is doubtable, but wtf did I do wrong here?

How would you play both hands?

[ndirish620]

If you ask me you bet to small which let him see the next card and after the turn you might as well as checked or bet big so that i you thought he was on a flush or straight draw he would go out most of the time if you bet high enough.

Think about it say he has 1200 and you have 1800 the flop comes and you bet he calls so you know he is on to something or has a decent had. Then the turn comes you see that this wouldn't help is flush or straight draw and so my advice would be to bet big maybe 600-800. He then would have to fold if he was on the straight or flush draw and you would win the pot and the nice bet you made after the flop

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Im too pissed to figure out what i did wrong. this was a stupid $10 tourney

If they told me I would be this aggrivated after the tournement I would have paid them $100 and told them to fuck off.

Very, funny, I'm with you on this

I would love to know the first hand you showed down to take the first pot and your postions/ players in the pot etc for the other hands

What I gather from what you've written is that you tend to overbet the pot even knowing there is a chance you will be called.

Take the first example, you don't know the guy but the hand plays and he calls, calls, calls till he hits his winner. He's a lucky guy. Did that overbet warm his spirits. What does an overbet of the pot usually mean to you? I guess that he viewed as slightly weak and thought he could do damage. With nothing other than the draws the calls were bad, but he made it and you knew this at the end. I know how angry it can make you, but better to let this one go in hindsight.

You've got that attachment feeling with this player now, he's not going to beat you. Danger.

The second hand again you've overbet the pot with a weakish holding of top pair 99's with draws on the board, with that player joining you. Your experience before should be telling you not to give this guy what he wants, a big pot and a good draw. He doesn't give a damm about odds. He just cares that he can beat you. Low and behold no getting away from it on the turn. A lucky guy.

I would examine your tendancy to overbet pots. It is one of the tools availalable, but I think you've used it at the wrong time and with the wrong player.

[Disturbed]

If you ask me you bet to small which let him see the next card and after the turn you might as well as checked or bet big so that i you thought he was on a flush or straight draw he would go out most of the time if you bet high enough.

Think about it say he has 1200 and you have 1800 the flop comes and you bet he calls so you know he is on to something or has a decent had. Then the turn comes you see that this wouldn't help is flush or straight draw and so my advice would be to bet big maybe 600-800. He then would have to fold if he was on the straight or flush draw and you would win the pot and the nice bet you made after the flop

ndrish620; that is exaclty what I did, first bet was twice the put size, second bet was 75% of the pot size? pot was 120, i bet 220, then pot was 560, i bet around 800-780. should I bet more?

Very, funny, I'm with you on this

I would love to know the first hand you showed down to take the first pot and your postions/ players in the pot etc for the other hands

What I gather from what you've written is that you tend to overbet the pot even knowing there is a chance you will be called.

Take the first example, you don't know the guy but the hand plays and he calls, calls, calls till he hits his winner. He's a lucky guy. Did that overbet warm his spirits. What does an overbet of the pot usually mean to you? I guess that he viewed as slightly weak and thought he could do damage. With nothing other than the draws the calls were bad, but he made it and you knew this at the end. I know how angry it can make you, but better to let this one go in hindsight.

You've got that attachment feeling with this player now, he's not going to beat you. Danger.

The second hand again you've overbet the pot with a weakish holding of top pair 99's with draws on the board, with that player joining you. Your experience before should be telling you not to give this guy what he wants, a big pot and a good draw. He doesn't give a damm about odds. He just cares that he can beat you. Low and behold no getting away from it on the turn. A lucky guy.

I would examine your tendancy to overbet pots. It is one of the tools availalable, but I think you've used it at the wrong time and with the wrong player.

Second hand was a complete disaster. I was prolly pissed at him and was busy looking at stopping him from buying a flush again so I didnt see the straight. Anyways I dont think I would have dont alot different with top 2 pair there. Maybe lost half my chips but not all of them.

Anyways yes I overbet the pots in two cases; 1- when I am playing with ppl that will by anything. 2-at the beginning of tournements as I think it is critical to establish this image of (you have something bet big) and I do it so there is less room for error. When my stack is over then usual I start slow playing and monkeying around to optimize profit on a good hand.

I agree with you on this:

The second hand again you've overbet the pot with a weakish holding of top pair 99's with draws on the board, with that player joining you. Your experience before should be telling you not to give this guy what he wants, a big pot and a good draw. He doesn't give a damm about odds. He just cares that he can beat you. Low and behold no getting away from it on the turn. A lucky guy.

But whats the solution? You suggest I small bet? I mean I will end up making my 2 pair he will bet I will reraise he will all in I will fold after loosing half my chips (and I doubt I will fold).

Donno, I think I can play with excellent players but these 0 calculating players that dont kow how to spell odds seem to be always getting the best of me.

The first hand was very nice actually. I was big blind with J3 some guy raises 20 so I call with 2 other guy. Pot is i think 180-200.

flop 542 - the same guy bets 100 or something small. i call.
turn is A - 542A we are the only two left he starts betting like a loose canon I keep calling and checking until I win with this str8.

See this is an example I think of underbetting and holding on to a loosing hand. Whats a 20 raise on a 10/20 blind with each player holding 1500 chips. Whats this 1/2 100 chip bet on the flop?

Anyways thank you both for your opinions looking forward to some more feedback

[NUCKING_FUTS_4]

Second hand was a complete disaster. I was prolly pissed at him and was busy looking at stopping him from buying a flush again so I didnt see the straight.

I thought so. No doubting you can play. We all get caught up sometimes. But didn't you try to stop him before and failed?

But whats the solution? You suggest I small bet? I mean I will end up making my 2 pair he will bet I will reraise he will all in I will fold after loosing half my chips (and I doubt I will fold).

after the first hand against this player, I'd prefer the monster before I go a wandering down the street with him again.

Donno, I think I can play with excellent players but these 0 calculating players that dont kow how to spell odds seem to be always getting the best of me.

Well you don't get sucked out on unless you are a half decent player. It happens, thats poker, all you can do is see if there are any common factors eg, cards, position, player type, flops if it happens TOO much.

The first hand was very nice actually. I was big blind with J3 some guy raises 20 so I call with 2 other guy. Pot is i think 180-200.

flop 542 - the same guy bets 100 or something small. i call.
turn is A - 542A we are the only two left he starts betting like a loose canon I keep calling and checking until I win with this str8.

See this is an example I think of underbetting and holding on to a loosing hand. Whats a 20 raise on a 10/20 blind with each player holding 1500 chips. Whats this 1/2 100 chip bet on the flop?

Well i don't know the cards so can't comment on the raise, most likely A-rag?
Yeah nice call in the blinds, you are the lucky boy now The 100 bet from the raiser is most likely the standard continuation bet, but with 3 others in the pot.... shudders

How much do you think this hand contributed to the image the villan had of you in the next hand when he hit his flush?

[dooish]

you were the bookie giving the mug punter very poor odds which he took.

in this stand alone case it cost you money but in the long run you are quids in.

if this mug player gets the odd good result he keeps coming back for more...

usually the odds dictate he will lose.

two bad beats in a row , tough but common enough.

[Arjonius]

Why is it necessary to call someone a moron for making -EV calls? You should want opponents to do so.

Also, on the second hand, you might want to take a look at the math. You barely priced him out. He has two overs and a gutshot, so he's probably only a 2:1 dog, which means your 260 bet into a 220 pot made it only slightly -EV for him to call.

[Metalwarrior]

In my opinion the guy wanted to finish quick with the tourney so he would have called anything you raised.

I think you played both hands how you should but you didn't have any luck.
Next time you will win.

[Disturbed]

you were the bookie giving the mug punter very poor odds which he took.

in this stand alone case it cost you money but in the long run you are quids in.

if this mug player gets the odd good result he keeps coming back for more...

usually the odds dictate he will lose.

two bad beats in a row , tough but common enough.

Yup that is what we keep saying to ourselves, this is what the pros tell us. ahh its a long road though.

Why is it necessary to call someone a moron for making -EV calls? You should want opponents to do so.

Also, on the second hand, you might want to take a look at the math. You barely priced him out. He has two overs and a gutshot, so he's probably only a 2:1 dog, which means your 260 bet into a 220 pot made it only slightly -EV for him to call.

2 overs means 6 outs
and 4 outs to the straight - so he's at 10 outs on the turn, which is around 40%. I think the str8 outs gave him these odds. But I think he would have called with 4 outs. and 2 like I said this was a disaster play on my behalf was too pissed on the previous one.

In my opinion the guy wanted to finish quick with the tourney so he would have called anything you raised.

I think you played both hands how you should but you didn't have any luck.
Next time you will win.

Yup, but I think I could have avoided elimination be reraising on the J or something. Where do I get luck from?

[Disturbed]

I thought so. No doubting you can play. We all get caught up sometimes. But didn't you try to stop him before and failed?



after the first hand against this player, I'd prefer the monster before I go a wandering down the street with him again.



Well you don't get sucked out on unless you are a half decent player. It happens, thats poker, all you can do is see if there are any common factors eg, cards, position, player type, flops if it happens TOO much.


Well i don't know the cards so can't comment on the raise, most likely A-rag?
Yeah nice call in the blinds, you are the lucky boy now The 100 bet from the raiser is most likely the standard continuation bet, but with 3 others in the pot.... shudders

How much do you think this hand contributed to the image the villan had of you in the next hand when he hit his flush?

So your suggestion is wait for the monster with this guy. hmm alright, will try, but he will probably waste some good pots for me as I will be inclined to fold when he's in a pot.

As far as this happening to much, well not sure what too much means, but generally this is the same thing happening over and over again. A player sees something on the flop that he remotely can put together, you keep hitting to get him out, and then he makes it on the turn. I dont think it happens to much as odds are with me, but when it happens you're basically crippled for that tournament.


How much do you think this hand contributed to the image the villan had of you in the next hand when he hit his flush?

it should have told the fucker that I had a good hand and he should not be monkeying around with me. I mean isnt that what you think of when chip leader keeps hitting and hitting u? At least this is what I would want it to tell him. It could have also taught him that this guy buys in on shit cards sometimes when the blinds are low.