Avoiding Mental SNAFUs...

[TroyC]

Alright, it's easy to talk about a bad beat put on ya, but IMHO I consider most bad beats the result of your own bad play [pre-flop/post-flop]...Not always, but often..

Anyhow, just a bit of a rant about my stupidity & how not being focused can cost you.

Playing a LIVE cash game 5/10-500 [sb 5, bb 10, 500 max bet].

I was doing well, bought in for 500 [1000 is max], and was sitting w/ 1100 behind at about 2am.

The table had dwindled down to 6 players [from 9]. The table was pretty TAG all round, which is typically my style as well; now that makes things harder, cuz when everyone is TAG, you better have the nuts by the Turn or you're going broke.

So I'm BB. First pos:: limps at $10 [sitting w/ 1200 behind], 4th pos limps at $10, SB completes, and I say Large w/ my J4. $40 in pot.

Pot::: $40
Flop::: JQ4

I lead out w/ pot bet of $40 1st Position min-raises to $80 4th pos & SB exit --- I think bout it for a min. There are currently 5 hands that beat me [QQ, JJ, 44, JQ, Q4] -- so by process of elimination, every PP that night was pre-flop'd raise... I can fairly easily elliminate QQ, JJ, 44; that leaves 2 hands that beat me and fairly certain that 1st pos is not playing Q4 leaving just JQ beating me... so the Min raise I think is a club draw; it's what I'd do on the club draw, cuz if the club is coming, you probably are going to lose action.

So my thoughts are he's either got two clubs or KQ, JQ, TJ, QT, and maybe 9J all of which I beat but one

So if I call the min-raise, the pot would be $200, so I decide that I should try to take this down right here and now. I re-raise $200 [$280 total bet].

1st pos thinks bout it for a while, and finally calls.

Pot::: $600
Turn::: JQ46

Looks like an extremely safe card for the KQ, TJ, QT, 9J;

I make it $500 to go into a $600 pot;
1st Pos again thinks & thinks & finally calls

Pot::: $1600
River::: JQ46 2

Extremely safe card; I go all in for my remaining $310 or so
1st pos insta-calls [just add water]. I'm actually suprised because I had him on either QT or the flush draw.

He's got JQ.

So I'm pissed at myself.

1) he told me where I was at his call of my $200.
2) more importantly I got felted on J4!!! Had he min-raised pre-flop I wouldntve called it w/ J4.

So looking back at it... I feel like my biggest mistake was the $200 re-raise. I know my thought was take it down here, and he called...but I [obviously after the fact was wrong] felt he was on QT or flush draw and felt like his top pair was good.

On the turn, I'm thinking :::dont let him have the flush draw for free!!!
On the river obviously I think i'm good.

------------

So what do you guys think? Where did I go wrong? What should I have done better? Constructive criticism requested... I already know I suck

Thanks,
TroyC

[pirates831]

I'm not sure how you can get away from this hand. Yeah, hands beat you but you can't be seeing ghsots every time you play a hand.

He raised the flop and called your reraise. The fact that you have identified the table as TAG should give you a hint that you might be beat, too.

Honestly, you just got cold-decked. It happens. He could have just easily had KQ or some top pair hand that he thought you were repesenting a flush draw on.

Better luck next time

[willie beaman]

The biggest misplay of this hand was not realizing the strenght of your opponents hand after the minraise of the flop bet. It's a spot where you make the call and move forward. Clearly, the player would not limp with aces or kings. On this hand, no way should your entire stack have been at risk based on information about your opponents from previous hands. The $200 reraise was not the best play there or firing again on the turn. Gotta know when to cut your loses short.

[talkpkr2me]

Just to add on to what you said early in your post about bad beats normally just being a mistake that was made,(i agree by the way)most of the time.... I just wanted to add what a guy said to me at Full Tilt today..."The person who makes the least amount of mistakes,wins".... HOW TRUE!! Now most of us already know that,or should,but many of us don't play like it!!

[wixx]

Yeah I know when talking about bad beats with friends if anyone starts with so I have Ace-nine - , the rest of us say fold that shit! Insert any other marginal hand and the bad beat story loses its luster.

[TIMNILES44]

my thought would have been when he gave you the 200 reraise that he had the qj if he had been on a draw most would have made a slightly higher reraise . with the min raise he was telling you he had the 2 pair. but i did like th efact you tried to make a play for the pot . being an aggressive player sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt

[PokerJonny]

You said it yourself:

1) he told me where I was at his call of my $200.

I agree with your play on the flop - I like the re-raise as I would also most likely put him on a flush or straight draw.

However given what you said about the table being tight/players of an ok standard etc. I would have to consider that after his call of your re-raise that maybe he has one of the hands that beats us.

I would have checked the turn and maybe folded to a big bet by him.
Its a tough one, charging opponents for making draws is correct poker but you have to slow down if its possible that your hand could be beat.

$810 of your money was lost after the turn - At this point you still have more than the $500 you bought it for so check/fold may have been the best option.

[TroyC]

Agreed to all... many thanks...I think its important to get "reflective" and look at what you did wrong. Sometimes you just have second best-- it's actually rare when you have the absolute nuts.

[wixx]

I hate when you get second best like every dang hand! I would rather get crap and fold than get good hands sometimes...

[TonyBOLONYsmalltownpro]

1) he told me where I was at his call of my $200.
2) more importantly I got felted on J4!!! Had he min-raised pre-flop I wouldntve called it w/ J4.

So looking back at it... I feel like my biggest mistake was the $200 re-raise. I know my thought was take it down here, and he called...but I [obviously after the fact was wrong] felt he was on QT or flush draw and felt like his top pair was good.

On the turn, I'm thinking :::dont let him have the flush draw for free!!!
On the river obviously I think i'm good.


I think u played the hand good until the turn. First of all, they're call on the flop doesn't tell u much actually. The board has a lot of drawing possibilities and you need to keep the lead here because of that. The $500 bet is only gonna get called by a hand that has u beat. The draws r easily folding and any good player is going to get off a lone top pair here when the action went bet, raise, reraise, call on the flop and then u bet close to pot on the turn. Ur also making ur self too committed to the pot in case they do have the winner.

U should have bet somewhere near half the pot on the turn like $200-$300 and then folded if they re-raised. First off this bet could possibly get called by a lone top pair. Also, they're probably not going to call that much money for the river on a draw and they're supposed to put u all in, in case ur on a draw if they have qj or a set.

This type of bet is very useful. Kind of a information bet and value bet at the same time.

btw try not to reraise min raises unless u'v got near the nuts or ur trying to narrow down the field to heads up. Just calling his min raise would have been the best play on the flop probably. Min raises usually indicate top pair atleast and rarely draws. If u took this route tho u would have less info on his hand so the reraise on the flop wasn't a terrible play by any means.