Pre-flop raises -- specifically cash games

[ND1991]

Ok so I am curious about pre-flop raise in a ring game.

My experience has shown that a 3xBB raise almost always gets called by someone and that 5xBB raise often can take down the blinds.

I am curious what people's thoughts are on this?

A couple of mine are...

1) 3x is just less and easier to call esp from BB since you basically have the right odds with any two live cards (assuming you are a 2:3 dog and need to put in 2bets to win 4.5bets)

2) 5x makes you look like you have a premium starting hand and the hand selection people are willing to play shrinks

3) computer bots do not call 5x *WINK*

thanks as always

[Peteyweestro]

I know since i started to get more into the game with the help from the players here, i try to raise 5x preflop when i have a hand i am willing to go all the way with most of the time and then your right it scares the others away, but if i go less like 2.5 or 3x then someone or 2 someones seem to call and then who knows what can happen

[sos_egg_n]

3 bb dont mean anything to me it just creates action and fails to create the illusion pple have big hand...there are not many hands that i would limp with that i fold to with this raise.i raise 3 bb with monsters only in hope of a reraise bhid me resulting in much bigger pots than if i limped and was raised. But generally my raise is at LEAST 4 bb and only gets higher pending how many limpers

[kingmotan]

It's not profitable to steal with 5bb from btn/cutoff. Bet 2.5 or 3bb. You will take the blinds and if you don't you will play a flop in position having invested only 3bb.
People at the micros are very passive and don't Resteal, however if you will go up in stakes a little you will get 3beted from the blinds a lot of times that's why a 5bb will not be profitable.

Sos_neggs do you play 4k games? I am just curios to see your 4bb and pending on limpers raises. It's not you but I find it funny when I read what ppl say here and then I see them play in the games. I mean ppl raise k7 utg and then call 3bets of 20% of their stack. Then they call 50% of their remaining stack on the flop because they have a flush draw. Then they come here and say how Hansen and durr and hellmuth are all donks and blablabla.
Just sayin'... make sure ur words match ur game.
CHeers

[hojediade]

Just sayin'... make sure ur words match ur game.
CHeers

I'm not with you on that one Mo.
I think i'm able to give good advice and forget about it when it comes to me.

[Elbarad]

Actually this is a topic I'm very interested in. As my game 'evolves' I find myself thinking about these same questions. How I want to bet say... 10 10 from late position vs how I want to be AQo or AA.

I'd offer some answer, but really I think we're at a similer place ND. I'm trying to figure out what hands I want action on, vs what hands I don't really but if I was called I'd be at happy with where I'm at investment wise.

Then sometimes I think I'd just be better off shoving preflop every time I get AA. More times that I would have guessed it seems someone calls a preflop all in on the .10 .25 tables I play on Stars.

Anyway, carry on. looking forward to hearing from some of you guys.

[kingmotan]

Actually this is a topic I'm very interested in. As my game 'evolves' I find myself thinking about these same questions. How I want to bet say... 10 10 from late position vs how I want to be AQo or AA.

Bet 10's the same you would bet AA because otherwise u will be exploitable. Regs will pick on ur betting patterns.
Don't open shove AA pre flop lol, that's not the way u extract value out of ur premium hands.
Another advice would be to move down in limits until u are more confident on your game.

[Elbarad]

Don't open shove AA pre flop lol, that's not the way u extract value out of ur premium hands.
Another advice would be to move down in limits until u are more confident on your game.

Yeah... the shove AA preflop thing was a bit tongue in cheek.. But I really do see people just cold calling preflop all ins with much less than premium hands. And after having 2-3 in a row time where you make a normal raise with AA and getting no action you start to day dream...

I was serious about trying to figure out how I want to handle each selection of cards though, compared to position and other players play styles. Just trying to learn more everytime I play, so what I used to think was good to do, isn't always what I do now. I probably don't play 10 10 the same as AA. I'll put some thought on it.

As for limits, maybe... maybe not. I hate playing much lower, it starts resembling a free roll tourny. I like the .05/.10 ok too.

[Poker Orifice]

Ok so I am curious about pre-flop raise in a ring game.

My experience has shown that a 3xBB raise almost always gets called by someone and that 5xBB raise often can take down the blinds.

I am curious what people's thoughts are on this?

A couple of mine are...

1) 3x is just less and easier to call esp from BB since you basically have the right odds with any two live cards (assuming you are a 2:3 dog and need to put in 2bets to win 4.5bets)

2) 5x makes you look like you have a premium starting hand and the hand selection people are willing to play shrinks

3) computer bots do not call 5x *WINK*

thanks as always

It depends on the table & depends on the site (if online). I find at some sites a 5x raise pre is pretty much standard where at most other it's 3x or 3.5x(pot).
I'm not fond of raising 5x pre (nor am I fond of defending BB to a 3x rs... why do I want to play pots out of position??). I have to ask myself, 'why am I raising?' Just 'taking down the blinds' isn't much of a goal/concern of mine, I'm more likely raising for value or in hopes of establishing an image for metagame, or to play a pot vs. a guy who I know has a tendancy to defend their blinds with weak holdings.

Where I play a 3x raise is generally the stnd. raise size preflop but used to play on a site where (a couple of years ago) where 5x was standard.

[Poker Orifice]

3 bb dont mean anything to me it just creates action and fails to create the illusion pple have big hand...there are not many hands that i would limp with that i fold to with this raise.i raise 3 bb with monsters only in hope of a reraise bhid me resulting in much bigger pots than if i limped and was raised. But generally my raise is at LEAST 4 bb and only gets higher pending how many limpers

I believe that OP is referring to opening raise sizes... I didn't see anywhere where they'd suggest raising to 3x once there's a limper(s) (personally in this case I'm usually raising 3x +1bb for the limper.. but possibly 4bb+1bb.. or even 5bb+1bb if in blinds out of position).