Odds on the quick

[Dan Abnormal]

This stuff is F'ing with my mind.

Is this pretty correct in a nutshell, If I have big cards, I want to make everyone pay big to see flops (AA KK QQ ) ????(AKs AOs or offsuit) so I need to re-raise preflop to $2 is this right because I want the least amount of people in the pot so my big hands will only be going against winning hands the the flop should give me the idea if Im in or not


If Im playing later postion card such 910s 78s A-rag-s I want to call and limp and keep the pot as under control as possible and keep as many people in the pot as possible so If I hit runners or draw out a straight or flush or a straggiht flush (HEY LOOK IM TRYING TO IMCORPORATE SOME LINGO HERE SO IF IM SAYING WRONG, PLEASE CORRECT THAT TOO, before I start trying to LINGOLIZE my poker talk) so I want to be able to bet $1 or $ 2 for the opportunity to win $14 or $16 or whatever as long as lot of people are in the pot.

FLUSH AND STRAIGH ODDS

IF AT THE FLOP I HAVE 4 of the 5 cards I need for a straight or flush, I need to limp at this stage or do I start trying to get people out of the pot here (DAMN LIMIT IS HARD TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF THE POT BUT)

IF 3 of the 4 cards are on the flop I need to limp as cheap as possible and get out if action heats up Y/N

If I have 2 in my hand a and the flop has 2 of the 4 cards, DO I start disquising here or start trying to weed out the people that wont pay me

OR DO I WAIT UNTIL THE HAND IS MADE BEFORE I MAKE ANY UPWARD BETTING but once the hand is made, chances Ill be the last one at the table to realize as everyone else will probably tell me what I have

BUT ROB THIS SOUNDS LIKE YOUR CHASING AGAIN - BUT.......)

IF I only have 3 of the 5 cards needed I need to get out of this pot first chance RIGHT


IF I HAVE 2nd best pair with top kicker and I better off getting out or seeing if I can turn a pair into trips and then I should limp here or bet to get people out and then I will know if someone has the top pair


IF I HAVE 2 pairs but not high pair and betting is going all from many seats, do I want to say in this pot and see if I make a boat or is that just way to specultive and if not enough people are in the pot, Its not worth my bet to even go post flop

I really got get a grasp of this best value for the bet thing right in my head

[Dan Abnormal]

OK I NEED SOME MORE STUFF


AT THE TURN

I HAVE 4 of the 5 cards needed for either FLUSH DRAW, STRAIGHT DRAW or BOTH DRAW but the turn does not hit, DO I LIMP HERE and IF I GET ACTION I FOLD

DO I GET AGRESSIVE HERE and push the max and try for a backdoor draw. Or if bet is min to stay in or am I now putting too much of my own money in the pot for it to worth even If I did make a draw. ARE THERE EXCEPTIONS LIKE IF I HAVE 4 CARDS and would have a NUT FLUSH but the turn didnt deliver Id want to try to force people out of this pot HERE (RIGHT WRONG)


IF IM ON 2 pairs and pretty sure someone looking to draw a straight or flush, DO I NEED TO BET IT UP AND TRY TO PUSH HIM OUT IF I THINK HE HASNT BEEN MADE YET or do ya think he'd pretty much follow and if he would, Is that what I should be doing


and any RIVER ADIVCE WOULD BE HELPFUL on odds too

[villaridge]

Dan, Dan, Dan

You sure ask a lot of questions. and questions that have no easy answer. You gotta remember that every hand is situational. And that its not gonna be the same answer every time.

Look, u have an intense hunger for poker knowledge. and i admire that. But I feel that you are moving wayyyyy to fast here. You post a lot of questions, lol, I mean a LOT. Hell if you just posted one question I or others might go in at length to discuss it. But realistically no-one is gonna sit there and respond to your laundry list of questions in depth, because most of us do not have the time to write a book.

You ended one of your questions with "(right/wrong)". I look at that as your biggest problem right now. That is, trying to break down poker strategy into a right/wrong categories. As far as I can tell, there is no such thing as right/wrong categories in poker.

Think about this Dan. A small sample set of data always skews any kind of statistical data. Realistically, how many hands of poker have you played? 2,000, 10,000, 100,000 or 1,000,000? The less hands you have played equals your poker "knowledge/experience".

There, I said it...."knowledge/experience". So how do u get that? well you ask questions, you study and then go get a lot of experience with it. Let me ask you...Do you understand Outs in poker? and how to calculate them?

When you ask questions like "I HAVE 4 of the 5 cards needed for either FLUSH DRAW, STRAIGHT DRAW or BOTH DRAW but the turn does not hit, DO I LIMP HERE and IF I GET ACTION I FOLD" It tells me that you do not know what outs are. Knowing your outs on a hand is fundamental in poker,,,Just like only a week or so ago you were trying to understand Pot Odds.

My point is, you are moving toooooo faaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssttttttttttt

Go back to the basic fundamental foundations of what poker is. Learn the pot odds, and the Outs , and the position you have, then throw in your player reading skills. Then go do it for 100,000 hands. Then you might begin to see how that question is really unanswerable in a way. The main thing is you do not give enough information for me to make a educated guess at what to do with your flush/straight draw. What are the blinds, what are the chip stacks, what is your position, what is your read on the other player and how they have been playing, what is your M in that stage of the tourney (and I know that u are talking cash, but lol, I'ma MTT only player).

Lol, jeeez Dan sorry for going off on u, In no way do I want to discourage you. You are gonna be the newcommer of the month. You love this game and wanna know so much, I'm just trying to tell you to know a lot u gotta put in the time, and u gotta go with fundamentals first and then get specific.

I hope I have not offended you Dan. You are a great person

[villaridge]

Oh and Dan. what started me on this ramble was remembering when I was a poker youngster and a poker friend and I got into a discussion about what to do in a hand. He sent me this reply:

Even with training you still need experience (LOTS of experience) before decisions come naturally (or quickly) to you. Say you've just learned what pot odds are. Now you've flopped an open ended straight. You're isolated in the hand with one other person who bets 400 into a 800 pot. Now its 400 to you for a 1200 pot. Your pot odds lesson says this is a makeable call (3:1 pot odds, roughly 2:1 odds to make straight by the river). But, that's by the river, what if it comes a blank for you on the turn? How well do you know your opponent? What type of player is he? Will he fire into you again? Was a half pot bet designed to intice you to call? Was he making a continuation bet, or just testing the waters? What range of hands do you have him on, how did the flop make or break him? What cards on the turn would kill your chances of being priced in to see the river. How does he perceive your image at the table? What percentage of your stack do you stand to lose by calling the flop and having to fold the turn? Are all 8 of your outs live? Does a possible flush kill two of them? Will four of those cards you're praying for possibly give him a better straight? If you do hit your straight on the turn, is it going to be obvious or are you holding a sleeper hand? (7 9 hole cards with a flop of 6, 8, X) So are your implied odds justifying a call? Or should you just semi-bluff raise his bet? Is the board ugly enough for him to lay down his AK? What size raise from you would get him to fold a middle pair? Is it possible for you to represent strength? What percentage of your stack would you be committing to the raise vs what percentage would he have to call? Is he pot committed to any play by you? Besides your 8 outs for your straight, how many cards could turn that might scare him off his hand? How long til the money? Whats your EV for the game? Are there fish at the table waiting to give you chips or is this draw your only spot to pick up a pot? Shit, now you've thought too long...is it still possible to represent strength? Is he taking your thinking time as an indicator that you're weak, on a draw, or have strength and are just milking him? Whens the last time you went into the tank with this guy at the table? What happened? Did he remember that? So where were you? Oh yeah...$400 to call or not, umm....times up!

[Dan Abnormal]

Not offended at all, I will try to focus questions a little better. Its just the more I read the more things I mix up and I feel like I am waAAYYYYYYY behind and I have to speed learn to catch up

(BUT CATCH UP TO WHAT, ROB)

I dunno I just know I gotta catch up I feel so far behind and I dont like feeling behind

I HAVE ALWAYS SAID SLAP MY FACE, WHEN ITS NEEDED because I dont know if anyone has noticed this, but my posts are kind of wordy, Kind of go in a million directions at once, and usually has the sentence structure of a 2 year old. I dont think anyone has noticed

and the sad thing in I probably typing just as fast as the 2 sentence posts, but it shows lol

[Dan Abnormal]

SOrry VIlla I think I know where the second post is going and I read two sentences in and IM CONFUSED ALREADY LOL

MY future questions will be specific and I will try to get as much detail as I can remember from the table, its just now it seems so much more real but let me read your second post

[Dan Abnormal]

$400 to call or not, umm....times up!

------------------------------------

UMMMM clock please,

POINT TAKEN

[villaridge]

LOL, you CANNOT "speed learn" POKER. impossible

[Dan Abnormal]

I cant resist,

Are all 8 of your outs live? How would I weed this info out

It was just a joke


MY GOD I JUST READ THROUGH SLOWLY,, NOW I THINK IM JUST GONNA FOLD AND RUN.

and I thought I was getting somewhere when I learned through losing $12 though to slow down with a ace high flush if their is pair on the board

I got that list copied down though and Im going to try to sort through those questions on hands and (I wont post it I promise) that I have questions and maybe I will be able to answer then I will start asking myself the right questions. IF I could answer that list on every troubled hand I had, GOLD, thanks for posting that

[villaridge]

lol Dan, u want to know soooo much

LIVE cards. hmmm how to explain this poker concept. Ok, you got AK and I got AQ. we go heads up. ok, my only "live" card is the Q. My A will not help me as you have the higher kicker with your A. The only way for me to win is get the Q. Do u see that? the Q is "live", the A is not.

Ok take that to a draw. Ok if you are HU u get to see if your outs are live. but say your in a three way pot and u have 8 outs to a draw. The more peeps in the pot, the better chance that your outs are not live. That is, its math. You must base poker decisions on stuff like how many outs do I have. and then you must base further decisions on how many are in the hand. You might have 8 outs, but if there are 5 in the hand, the odds of all your 8 outs being live go way down.

lol, hope that explains that line of "Are all 8 of your outs live"