Betting Strong with nothing and Waiting with Something

[Dan Abnormal]

Playing live the other night, got into a betting war with someone that by the river I was for sure he was on a flush when I folded with 2 high pair Q and K's. After the river missed my flush, the guy leads out a $4 bet and which I folded but I was this hand for about $12 up to this point and just folded instead of paying the $4 to see (NOT TO MENTION ALMOST A $70 pot) a lot of action in this hand until after the turn and people then dropped off because of the flush opportunity on the board.

This guy flips over NOTHING but a pair of 8's and I was like HOLY CRAp - SOme dude then whispers to me that, if he had the flush he would not have lead the bets like he did, he would of let me lead the betting to see if I was strong or not. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE because I saw the same thing happen to another player at the table, a big river bet but at least this guy wasnt like me and put the money in and won becasue the other guy had nothing.

Last night the same thing, and Im noticing this with flush opportunities, some dude throws $4 on the river bet and he wasnt holding anything of value but gave the illusion he was, but when I saw him do this and then when he showed, It was just like the other night. AS stated above I seemed to be the only falling for this as I folded whereas the other examples the guy was called and the original better lost. I KNOW ITS GAMBLING but it seems weird to play so strong when you arent (THIS IS LIMIT TABLES so $4 is pretty good bet) but what can I say I basically let go of $70 becasue I wouldnt risk $4 extra dollars

[scrawnybob]

hi Dan

not sure if I read the hand / post right but afaiks if you only needed to call an $4 to showdown for a $70 I'm not sure why you didnt call ?

those pot odds are total no brainer so I think I must have missed something

I would call $4 bet into a $70 pot on the river with a beer mat and bottom pair to be honest

limit is a bit of an odd beast as your often only ever really having to decide on calling an additional bet ... not an all-in (NL) or a pot size bet (PL) so afaiks with limit you will get alot more limping and equally you also need to be prepared to do alot more limping yourself too

with a half decent hand and a decent pot already calling the extra bets on the river are in alot of cases obligatory if you have got that far

have a look at pot odds and really get to grips with when you must call just because you must call

limit is a very very different beast to no-limit and pot-limit where other players bets can and do price you out of a hand -

with limit often it makes far more sense to call than to even consider folding (thats why you want to make tigher selection at the preflop stage IMHO ... or get out when its raised and comes round to you and is no longer costing just one more unit bet to see the next card etc (eg. bet, raised, re-raised ... to you 2 bets extra to call)

cheers scrawnybob

[Dan Abnormal]

YEs you read right I was so scared I wouldn invest $4 for $70 on a hand that in the end I was all over.

I usually will pay for flops on any pocket pair, and suited connectors, higher non suited connectors, and a-rag(SUITED ONLY), plus the top stuff. BUt if I miss on the flop I usually just fold where I run into the trouble is trying to figure other people out when the bets are bigger (by design MIn bet at turn is $2) NOT TO MENTION I run into troubles of straights and flushes of should I chase - I really fall into the trap when I have 4 of the 5 needed cards at the flop. DO I WANT TO CHASE OR FOLD. I guess it would depend how many people have stayed in the pot.

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with a half decent hand and a decent pot already calling the extra bets on the river are in alot of cases obligatory if you have got that far

I THINK THIS ONE OF THINKS that just screams I have no idea what Im doing live, becasue Ill bet the Turn but If I miss the river IM OUT, but your right it seems who ever is in at the TURN does take it to the end. THATS WHAT IM GOING TO DO TODAY. Im the one weirdo at the table that will just donate money and then leave the pot. BUT a lot of times I am beat on the River and Ihate chunking out those extra chips since I feel they will pay for another orbit, BUT YOUR RIGHT most at the RIVER, "WELL LET ME PAY TO SEE IT" but a lot of these dudes dont make $20 last as long as I do either. I decided today If its strong enough to take to the turn I will pay to see it.

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with limit often it makes far more sense to call than to even consider folding (thats why you want to make tigher selection at the preflop stage IMHO ... or get out when its raised and comes round to you and is no longer costing just one more unit bet to see the next card etc (eg. bet, raised, re-raised ... to you 2 bets extra to call)

(I NEED TO PUT THIS ON MY WALKMAN AND JUST HAVE ON LOOP REPEAT)

I WILL TRY TO GET MY SCARED MONEY ARSE on the RIGHT STARTING TODAY

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE,

Another problem that gets me too, is I give way too much credit to what other people have and I think its becasue ONLINE they will have it usually have the hand and every hand is geared toward high action and LIVE 2nd pair best pair will hold up lots of time but LIVE IM thinking man this will never hold up and it holds up fine. Come back to play online with that philsophy and get kicked all over the boards.

[Dan Abnormal]

I tried this little move today and pushed in $2 on the turn and the guy beside me goes Hes got the flush Im done. And I didnt quite yet have the flush but I did have the ACE if the flush hit, but I said to myself I started the hand I gotta finish it and played it through. I know it sounds stupid to even post this but this is kind of a big step for me, its when all the crazy betting started happening today that I was like, NOPE but if I had the right pockets I would have gotten in. Today was very productive if only for 2 hours. I still might go back later

[PLAYFUL1]

YIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP PLAYFUL NEVA PUSHES ALL IN WITH NOTHONG.... NO MATTER WHAT THE SITUATION IS, POSITION OR POT ODDS...BYE THE WAY WHAT IS THE CORRECT FORMULA TO COMPUTATE POT ODDS

[villaridge]

dan dan dan. I remember u originally posting about wanting to know about pot odds. lol. here, SB himself pointed out that it was all pot odds. You responded with a lengthy response that never once touched on pot odds.

Please dan, think about the pot odds. What screams to me is you getting good advice and then going off on other stuff...lol, insert your response to SB.

Dan, I like ya, but u remind me of a autistic child that cannot hold a concept for more than a minute.

The thing u need to focus on is the FUNDAMENTALS of poker. Not what just happened at the table. U brought in an example of how u chickened out on a $4 bet into a $70 hand. SB responded quite thoughtfully to that, and you responded with other stuff and feelings.

But the point is YOU MISSED THE POINT. You DO NOT CONSIDER POT ODDS. That is what screams at me when I read your posts. Please stop posting about your suppositions about what happened and stop, take a breath, and think about this major flaw that you have that SB pointed out.

Because if u don't, you will burn out soon, convinced that poker sucks. and u will burn out soon if you continue to post what u feel/saw/felt and peeeps respond with what went wrong and you go on to ignore the OBVIOUS leak in your game and u respond with talk about other stuff that u feel/saw/felt.

I'm telling you Dan, to SLOW down. Let me ask you....do u understand pot odds? Do you know your outs in any hand? Untill you do, well, u are lost in the poker world if u ask me.

[Dan Abnormal]

Not part of example

[Dan Abnormal]

Not part of example

[Dan Abnormal]

Not part of example

[Dan Abnormal]

Not part of example