Pokerstars fixed!

[Asbestross]

Just wanted to share this one with you, its stupidly sick and put me on tilt big style

Cards are dealt, pocket Jacks for me. Raised 3x BB from mid position.
All fold except one who re-raises enough to put me all in. Tough decision to make with Jacks; but slightly short stacked so made the call...

The idiot shows 8d 2h WTF? I thought...

Flop lays down 8c Jh 8s ... woo full boat . Turn throws a blank, and can u guess what came on the river... go on. The only card which would beat me, the remaining 8.

Seriously, i dont understand these kinds of play, we're in a $10 tournament so not as if there were active fish at the table ... ?!?!?!?!?!

PATHETIC!

[scrawnybob]

hi

ok this probably isnt the reply you want - BTW Badbeats are best posted in bad beats section

but anyway - there isnt any question that once the cards were dealt it was a Badbeat

BUT

was he really an idiot raising you all-in with junk ???

Im not so sure you can just look at it like that ... if he had plenty of chips and saw you didnt but you raise 3x BB that IMHO means he could have easily put you on a mid pair (not far off) and figures he can afford to pressure you into a fold by re-raising you all-in

his cards are irrelevant

IMHO he expected you to fold ... you didnt but that isnt the point

poker is totally totally situational game - so what you view as a donk idiot move probably isnt anything of the sort

hope that makes sense and helps you with your game

BTW $10 buyins are nothing - your not (thankfully) going to find no fish at $10

also on the flip side sometimes people have a funny 5 mins - it happens and they do stupid things or throw the game ... it could be as simple as someone at the door and they really need to go ... so they just push ... maybe get lucky etc etc

$10 isnt really anything in the overall scheme if it for a player who has say a $500+ roll

cheers SB

[Asbestross]

Ever noticed how when you're short stacked, you just cant seem to hit? I was in that position earlier in the $4.40 SnG tourney. Very early on i quadrupled up and was 1st for a very large portion of the tourney.

Took these from the hand history of the tourney ... interesting

25 Hole Cards when 1st place back to back (each hand received in order of the game):
9c3d As3s AhQs 9dAs AcJc 6h10h 7s7d 10cAh Kd5c KhAs QsQd 4s10d 4cAc 9s5h 4d4c 5h5c AhJh 3c3d Ah10C 7c7h 7h2d 2s10s Kd10h Qs3h KhKd

6 Pocket pairs, with countless suited face cards etc...


Now lets see 25 hole cards when short stacked late in the tourney:
8s2s 3c4s 6c2s 10h3h 9c2c 3dJc 3sAc 6c3d 9d10d 9cQs 4h4c 5c3c 4d9h 4c9d 5c6d 2s7h 7dAs 10dQh 5h9c 9d5c 10c4s 7d3c 5sAc 5s10d 2d7s QdQs(this hand busted me against pocket 3's with the set on the river)

2 pocket pairs, with barely any face cards!

These hands are exactly as played in the tournament, all i've done is lifted them from the hand history, with the big stack starting hand after i took 1st place. Short stack 25 up to busting out.

Ever wonder why it seems once you're short stacked on PS that you can never get back ahead? Now the genuises over at PS will tell you i just had a bad streak, but this is a standard thing. I can repeat hand histories for over 300+ tournaments and they will each show the same thing when short stacked.

Is it just me thats being a conspiracy theorist here? Or am I mad?

[Magoo002]

I'm through with Pokerstars. The site is definitely rigged to take your money. I just got off the tables and at least on four different occasions they dealt me virtually identical hands three or four times in a row. How can that happen if they're dealing legitimately. I really think that Pokerstars sucks and intend on finding another site to play at. I even emailed them and they respond with the cards are dealt at random which is a crock. I'm completely through with the thieves.

[Poker Orifice]

I'm through with Pokerstars. The site is definitely rigged to take your money. I just got off the tables and at least on four different occasions they dealt me virtually identical hands three or four times in a row. How can that happen if they're dealing legitimately. I really think that Pokerstars sucks and intend on finding another site to play at. I even emailed them and they respond with the cards are dealt at random which is a crock. I'm completely through with the thieves.

You know what's really odd, I regularly read about, watch them play, read their posts/HHs, etc., etc. and have never (not even ONCE) heard any of them question the site's integrity. I've seen/watched (etc.) many MTT regs. on there with profits in their account of over 1/2million (it's not just one or two or a few,... there's dozen upon dozens of them... some of them even in excess of $1million in profit (one guy won $1.7million on there in one tournament... same guy has won a WPT title... wonder if he figures it's 'rigged'?). OR how about the mulititude of 100nl players who are regularly grinding away trying to earn a meager living (many who are getting by)? Do you figure they think it's rigged too? Then there's the other cash game players on Stars who are playing at $5/$10 & up,... wonder what their opinion is about the site's intergrity when they're bringinng in $5,000 for a single 100bb buyin ($25/50). I'm guessing they are pretty confident about Pokerstars legitimacy. What about the players (cash game) who've played in excess of 200,000 hands (or the SuperNova.. or SuperNova Elite),.. ones who have very extensive databases for their own play (via HEM or PT3) and many of them who have mathematical backgrounds &/or degrees, etc. I'm sure that some (maybe many?) have gone through their databases on more than one occassion. Never heard of any problems ever... not for Pokerstars anyways.
PokerStars Software Security - Secure Online Poker
This ^ is the link to Pokerstars integrity questions, with information about their RNG (random number generator) & other security features. Have you read it? (some direct quotes from it below)
"Our client software uses the industry standard SSLv3 protocol. It is configured to use RSA for authentication and key generation and triple-DES (EDE3, in outer-CBC mode) for encryption. Currently we are using 512-bit RSA key, which according to [1] is sufficient for short and medium-term (up to several years) secrets. As we update server private keys every three months, we are secure with a good safety margin. The use of Triple-DES EDE3 for session encryption is considered even safer"
We understand that a use of a fair and unpredictable shuffle algorithm is critical to our software. To ensure this and avoid major problems described in [2], we are using two independent sources of truly random data:
user input, including summary of mouse movements and events timing, collected from client software Quantis [3], a true hardware random number generator developed by Swiss-based company ID Quantique, which uses quantum randomness as an entropy source
Each of these sources itself generates enough entropy to ensure a fair and unpredictable shuffle.
Shuffle Highlights:
A deck of 52 cards can be shuffled in 52! ways. 52! is about 2^225 (to be precise, 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,404,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000 ways). We use 249 random bits from both entropy sources (user input and quantum randomness) to achieve an even and unpredictable statistical distribution. Furthermore, we apply conservative rules to enforce the required degree of randomness; for instance, if user input does not generate required amount of entropy, we do not start the next hand until we obtain the required amount of entropy from the Quantis RNG. We use the SHA-1 cryptographic hash algorithm to mix the entropy gathered from both sources to provide an extra level of security We also maintain a SHA-1-based pseudo-random generator to provide even more security and protection from user data attacks To convert random bit stream to random numbers within a required range without bias, we use a simple and reliable algorithm. For example, if we need a random number in the range 0-25:
we take 5 random bits and convert them to a random number 0-31
if this number is greater than 25 we just discard all 5 bits and repeat the process
This method is not affected by biases related to modulus operation for generation of random numbers that are not 2n, n = 1,2,.. To perform an actual shuffle, we use another simple and reliable algorithm:
first we draw a random card from the original deck (1 of 52) and place it in a new deck - now original deck contains 51 cards and the new deck contains 1 card
then we draw another random card from the original deck (1 of 51) and place it on top of the new deck - now original deck contains 50 cards and the new deck contains 2 cards
we repeat the process until all cards have moved from the original deck to the new deck
This algorithm does not suffer from "Bad Distribution Of Shuffles" described in [2].
PokerStars shuffle verified by Cigital
PokerStars submitted extensive information about the PokerStars random number generator (RNG) to Cigital. We asked this trusted resource to perform an in-depth analysis of the randomness of the output of the RNG, and its implementation in the shuffling of the cards on PokerStars.
They were given full access to the source code and confirmed the randomness and security of our shuffle. Visit the "Online Random Number Generator" for more details (link below)
Random Number Generator - PokerStars Randomly Generated Numbers - RNG
Cigital
Cigital, the largest consulting firm specializing in software security and quality, has confirmed the reliability and security of the random number generator (RNG) that PokerStars uses to shuffle cards on its online poker site, showing the solution meets or exceeds best practices in generating unpredictable and statistically random values for dealing cards.
"Truly random numbers are the heart of fair online gaming," said Paco Hope, Manager of Cigital’s Gaming Services. "Our assessment looked at the entire solution, including the hardware and the software, and confirmed that the output of the RNG is cryptographically random and truly unpredictable." Given the results of this examination Cigital believes that online players should have full confidence that each hand is randomly dealt and the cards being dealt cannot be predicted in advance.
Cigital analyzed the source code, entropy sources and documentation for PokerStars' RNG implementation. In addition, a sample RNG output stream provided by PokerStars was subjected to—and passed—FIPS 140-2 style testing. Using standard methods for exploiting RNGs and having full access to the source code, Cigital found no weaknesses in the PokerStars RNG, concluding that the implementation adheres to the current state-of-the-practice in generating random seed values.
"Cigital's reputation for excellence is well known in the gaming industry," said Lukas Gant, Director of Online Marketing at PokerStars. "Their previous discovery of critical RNG implementation weakness at a major online poker site made our decision to work with Cigital an easy one. Their considerable technical expertise and thorough approach to software reliability and security have established them as a trusted third-party evaluator."
"Building software that can properly generate reliable random numbers is non-trivial, but it is an absolute requirement in the gaming industry," said Dr. Gary McGraw, Chief Technology Officer at Cigital and author of the book Exploiting Online Games. "We are pleased to provide extensive expert analysis of the PokerStars random number generator and act as a trusted advisor. Our analysis shows conclusively that the PokerStars RNG used to generate the poker hands dealt on PokerStars.com makes proper use of statistically random sequences. A safe and fair gaming environment is an important part of any online gaming experience, and PokerStars meets those criteria."

[Poker Orifice]

A very popular thread here on 4kingpoker.... but is kinda sad really (although not surprising). Players believing the 'site is rigged', or it's 'out to get them', 'robbing them', 'corrupt', etc. etc. (the list is really endless as these types are very imaginative). This type of thinking/belief is common for alot of players who are newer to online poker (or have just not spent a lot of time on improving upon their game). I know myself couldn't believe the amount of badbeats one could take in succession but I persevered, read more, studied more, played more, met more successful players, conversed with better players than myself (<which wasn't hard to find, pretty much most of them, lol). I watched poker training videos, read what others were saying about certain hands played & read the coach's responses. Played some more working on different areas of my game... then read some more, reviewed my play via auto-replayer, read some more & played some more. Picked up a few short subscriptions to online training (vid.) sites, watched 100's of vids. (probably over 250hrs. easily), asked around to see what were the best books to read (then read them,.. some of them actually 4 & 5x each) & acquired a bit of a library, I posted HandHistories & read the replies, I read other's HH's & read thru the replies, I listend to poker coaches, I conversed with others about particular hands & how they were played (< never get enough of this imo), then played some more, read some more, reviewed some more.... & did it all again!!!
I was determined to be a winning player & wouldn't accept anything less. It took me awhile to deal with the emotional end of poker & is still probably my biggest leak... 'BUT' I'm working on it.
I'm very grateful today that I was able to stumble across some posts that were written by winning players (as opposed to 'whining players' < I was a whiner for the first 6mos.) and aas a result I didn't spend any time at all with the thinking "this online stuff is rigged!" I am so glad as this would've been completely counterproductive & a HUGE waste of time... time that could be spent so much better... ie. learning how to play... learning how to win... and continuing to keep on learning.
Occassionally I'll visit a forum where I first started out on when I began playing online - a site that has ALOT of "rigged believers", a site where there's ALOT of losing players. I've read threads on there recently that are written by the same players who were writing them 3yrs. ago. They're still losing players, still believing it's rigged & still stuck in super micros ($1) & wondering why there's so many badbeats (cuz "it's rigged" in their opinion).
I feel sorry for them... a bit.. but not too much because they are the donaters/contributors to the bankrolls of others. They've chosen to keep a narrow-minded view of things, incapable of looking within & seeing past their own bs. They don't need to spend more time learning/studying this game... they know how to play it (so does my 6yr. old nephew... but doesn't suggest that my nephew doesn't have alot more to learn).
I used to try to help these types 'see the light'... break through their own denial and actually wasted a bit of time doing so (which also seems ridiculous & insane (< repeating the same action & expecting different results), trying to convinve them of stuff that they'd never be open to even considering (could it be 'them'.... were they the cause of their own demise?.. "never", lol). So,.... here I find myself doing it again now right here on 4kingpoker. Why? Perhaps in hopes that someone who's just starting out might get themselves onto the right track to becoming a winning player instead of putting in alot of wasted time believing the sites are rigged.
Hope this hasn't been a wasted effort on my part... but if anything it's helped myself as it has me feeling greatful that I myself didn't take that road.

[Poker Orifice]

Ever noticed how when you're short stacked, you just cant seem to hit? I was in that position earlier in the $4.40 SnG tourney. Very early on i quadrupled up and was 1st for a very large portion of the tourney.

Took these from the hand history of the tourney ... interesting

Ever wonder why it seems once you're short stacked on PS that you can never get back ahead? Now the genuises over at PS will tell you i just had a bad streak, but this is a standard thing. I can repeat hand histories for over 300+ tournaments and they will each show the same thing when short stacked.

Is it just me thats being a conspiracy theorist here? Or am I mad?

I don't see the HandHistories? (or the statistical data to back up such claims... let's see evidence via PT3 or HEM database please...?).

It's a conspiracy... it's just 'you'.
I've had countless final tables in small field priv. tournaments after becoming extremely shortstacked. Just in the past 30days I can count a few
couple/few examples:
Level3 1500chip starting stack, I'm down to220 chips <4bb's and came back to take 1st place!!

Last week, knocked down to 225 chips after losing a pot & then getting it in w AK (4bet shoved & got called by AJo <?) and lost (obv terrible call). This was a field of ~125 players, many of them very solid/good players (far from a typical donkament). I final tabled it.

I sat out for the first 55mins., field size again ~135 or so, when i sat down I had ~5 or 6bb's and again I went deep & cashed (top18).

Quite awhile ago now, I was in a Tournament with ~600 entrants and when we were on the bubble (54pd.) I had less than 2bb's (I had taken a beat an orbit before & was desperately looking for a spot to get it in...knowing I've obviously got zero fold equity & trying to avoid a mulitway pot because at this point I seriously just wanted to cash (there seemed like there'd be no advantage of going deeper in the tourney even if I say quadrupled or quintupled up in a multiway pot with something like 86s on a lark). Well, I woke up with a hand & was UTG, I shoved (or should I say 'limped', lol) and won a 4way pot when my bg pr. held up. Bubbled popped a couple hands later & then I got it in a few times good and built up a decent stack. It got sicker... I ended up taking down a few more BIG pots, getting it in good & within 5mins. I was actually sitting in the Top10!!! I finished that one off with a 4th place finish for ~$800.00 All from 1.5bb's on the Bubble.
I have more tales of being super short & making great comebacks & I've also witnessed many others (ie. stuff like when you're down to 160chips in a SNG/STT & then take down 1st place!!). I actually saw a guy on a table of a game I was in who was down to 20chips in a SNG/STT with 6players left, blilnds had gotten huge (turbo) and this guy amazingly won it!!!
Anything is possible... and I really, really, really don't believe there's any truth to a shortstack being at a disadvantage (other than the obvious of course.. ie. you're down to say 7bb's in an MTT.. even if you double up you've still only accumulated a shoving stack & will need to be getting it in sometime soon with hopes of your hand holding again before you'll even get any kind of playable stack).

Perhaps reading thru the couple of posts I made above will help you out abestross (<sp?)

[slillico]

I don't see the HandHistories? (or the statistical data to back up such claims... let's see evidence via PT3 or HEM database please...?).

Anything is possible... and I really, really, really don't believe there's any truth to a shortstack being at a disadvantage (other than the obvious of course.. ie. you're down to say 7bb's in an MTT.. even if you double up you've still only accumulated a shoving stack & will need to be getting it in sometime soon with hopes of your hand holding again before you'll even get any kind of playable stack).

Perhaps reading thru the couple of posts I made above will help you out abestross (<sp?)

Your probably right, I often watch the final sunday million final table and never see anything hinky going on there.

Hand selection is often the cause of my demise, however the fact remains I still regret AA KK AKs AQs QQ JJ after the first break as they are always, always cracked.

My problem stems from being a statistical player, I believe in getting AA 2 handed followed by with as many of my chippies in the middle as I can, however this has always been a terrible stategy, when I look down at the rockets soon after the first break, I play the as follows.

If against a shove I re-raise, depending on player if I think I will get 1 caller all my chippies are in, if I'm early to act I raise 3 BB PF, if I'm re-raised again all my chippies are in, if I just get a caller I pot size bet on the flop. However I'm still unable to get AA to cash more than 50%. I'm trying to play AA 2 handed that's it that's all.

I'm not quite as agressive with any other hand, it's just to costly to my stack, even when I flop a set and raise there just seems to be some one who calls and gets the miracle cards turn and river.

I know the stats of the percentage my hands should hold up or the stats, when playing AK that an A or K should hit the board, it just does not play with any statistical accuracy for me. I know many more stats, like getting the flush and more and flopping the set etc, just I'm not even remotely close on any of them.

Maybe I'm just simply put unlucky, and need to realize that fact, I know often I bust out due to lack of patience, and I know I envy the some guy who never seems to miss a flop and can play any suited or connecting cards and hit so many times in row it is beyond belief.

I know I suck at this game and will continue to suck, however again simply put best hand wins and if I have not been dealt the best hand in 30 hands, I know I expect too much from my premuim starting hands.

Until I can get some statistical accuracy I will continue to suck.

[Asbestross]

I don't see the HandHistories? (or the statistical data to back up such claims... let's see evidence via PT3 or HEM database please...?).

It's a conspiracy... it's just 'you'.

I have over 20,000 hand histories saved so will put together a spreadsheet.
I'm only going off what i've seen and I know i'm more than likely wrong, but it just seems that when you're big stacked you seem to hit a lot more ... maybe because you're more willing to play those suited connectors and less than premium hands ... i dunno.

Dont get me wrong i'm not saying poker is rigged, in fact far from it, i'm quite sucessful both at cash tables and tournaments. Just voicing an opinion and hoping that somebody can prove it wrong so that I can rest a little easier

I have made monster come backs from short stacks quite a few times, best was flopping aces over kings with KA hole cards 8xBB left (with 4 players in the pot i might add who in their right mind would shove with pocket 6's to a flop like that I dont know lol)

From my own experience though, it always appears as though when you're short stacked your mid pairs never set up, your connectors never hit and your top pairs always get busted.

My personal opinion is however that I wish somebody could finally debunk the whole "ITS RIGGED" theories, its far too easy to blame any losses in succession on a rigged site than it is admit failures in your own game.

[slillico]

However, I broke the rules and set up a new account, with the free $2.00 I entered a .25 90 sng and placed first, then made the money in a 2.20 top 360 paid turbo, then I just placed first in a 18 $1.00 sng. Both wins I was the massive chip leader.

So far over a very small sample size I have got AA every 30 hands.

Game is pretty easy when you are dealt the winning hand with such great frequency.

Just hope they don't flip the switch on me. However Herioin dealer comes to mind.