Gus hansen

[sos_egg_n]

Al,
i know you do not see the whole game hence i can only come to my asumptions from what i can actually see. My logic was that donkey play can trump a thinking player not via genius play but pure bullying (sometimes i think thru naivity and nothing else).

I am aware u do not see all the action but every hand i seen gus play i find strange i recall opponent had 99 gus bluffed on jq flop turn k in my opinion there is a huge chance player has hit a draw gus just bluffs again.....opponent only had a pocket pair if he had over cards hes defo hit flop / turn or both.

Gus had ace rag player had a q....flop comes ace A Q 5 (something like that) player checks Gus checks (i gave credit here thought mayb i have him wrong he smells danger)
turn 6 checked down again river 5 then the guy bet out.......Gus raised???? he raised for value not enuf to bluff.....There was a side pot also (so u know the guy must have somrthing) he was hoping the guy just had a queen i assume y?? he could well of had an bigger ace. Would gus read the checks as weak??? he sets up this play himself as he always bets so to read this as weak is strange.......do u not think??


King Mo aka - the diss poster for the sake of dissing (not catchy i know i am working on it)

10 10 v ak - is widely known as a race altho i know and many others know (u r not the only clever one) that 10s are a favourite hence i still choose to refer to it as a race.

100 blinds my point been theres no rush (shockingly u miss the point of my comment i dont care what makes official deep stack guide lines) u know ur 10s are bad check out the clip on u tube...type the below in to search and please tell me how this is not purely a DONKEY PLAY.

Phil Hellmuth vs. Tom Dwan "Durrr" National Heads Up Poker


I look forward to replies mayb not so much urs king but feel free all the same : )

GL at the tables

[sos_egg_n]

Spowers,
thanks for the explanation i prefered mine tho : )


My point is of course 10 10 is a strong fav h/u against another hand....when the other hand has limped.....reraised u.....then i think reraised u again.....you can only in my opinion beat 1 hand AK ur opponent can have 24 hands that are 80 percent fav....and 16 hands that have 45 percent chance. it purely smells of 1 hand to me he is much more likely to only have 20 percent chance of winning this hand.......1010 is a big hand but not in this spot as soon as u are trapped and raised u know u cud be in trouble.....when u reraise...(altho i cannot recall if he pot commited himself here) and r raised again ur chances of been ahead are minimal.

Rgds

[spowers454]

Very true. But he wouldn't be Dwan without that insane aggression that we love so much lol. And I like your reasoning behind the Drrrr better to. The boy is crazy but a blast to watch and even more fun to try some of his play, reraise twice with 69off lol.

[Poker Orifice]

Originally Posted by kingmotan

The high stakes players think at another level. That's why you can't understand them, and their plays. It's called metagame. Look into it.

I agree with this ^ 100%!!!!!!
Alot of the play you're seeing & what players involved are doing is based on a bunch of prior play for starters.
Also (as mentioned above), these guys are often thinking on levels far beyond Level1 or 2,
ie. what is he thinking, that I'm thinking about what he's thinking
What do I think he's holding?.... What do I think he thinks about what I think he's holding,...>>> etc. etc. it keeps on going.. lol & all kinds of other variations re ranges, moves, what they're capable of in certain spots, how they typically play certain hands in certains situations (keeping in mind that they'll also be balancing their ranges/moves, etc.)etc. etc. etc etc etc
What you perceive to be happening when you're watching a hand on the table isn't necessarily anywhere close to what's going on.
　
sidenote re GusHansen checking back with A-x on a A flop, dry board. Why would he lead out here as he's likely only getting called down by hands that beat him.
As far as those who figure that Durrrr's strategy is just to be a multi-barrelling, over-aggro spewtard... this is really far from the truth. Look up the term 'metagame' and see how it applies to these guy's games. Durrrr is capable of firing an overpot shove on the river with air, but might also be doing so with the nuts.

[Poker Orifice]

As far as Gus goes, I think he's one of the crappier pros and plays like a bit of a donk (although it obviously works welll for him).

This isn't just my own opinion, as I've heard this coming from other pros.
I've read Gus's book a couple of times. Reading the intro. to it, I was excited about getting the oppurtunity to hear some of Gus's thinking revealed throughout a tournament and all of it's levels. I was thinking/hoping that there'd be some deep insightful stuff on the pages to follow. I was wrong. It wasn't like anything I had expected (ie. in comparison to say Jon Turner, Apestyles, or Rizen's stuff in their book "Winning Poker Tournaments - One Hand At A Time", it was like reading some newbie donk's stuff. I'm guessing (hoping) that there's more to Gus's thought processes while playing a tournament but that the book was written in a way in which it'd appeal to a larger target market (at least I hope that's why it was a bit on the lame side imo).
the book did reveal another person's style of play, typically using one's stack as a weapon and defending one's blinds & playing out of position ALOT (relying alot on player reads & hoping villain can't call when he donkbet leads on alot of flops, knowing villain will be committing a good chunk if they chose to call). Tightening up vs. Gus would obviously be one's goal but also I think floating his donkbets, calling down lighter than typical, check-raising when out of position, or check/calling & donking the turn might be things to counteract some of his seemingly mindless aggression. I've also heard that Gus has toned down his game considerably (hmm... probably due to his style being exploitable by better players than him).

[kingmotan]

Very nice posts PO and ty for agreeing with me. I just hope these guys read that couple of times and understand what you are saying. And the fact that you read all those books including Gus's clearly shows that you know what you're talking about. A+
Gus is far from the poker player I like but I have a lot of respect for his way of thinking and if I remember corectly he has a audio recorder on his live tournaments and records all the important hands he has played to analyze them afterwards.

[sos_egg_n]

Thanks for replies

Metagame = correct me if i am wrong metagame in a nutshell is tight players dont get action as people notice there style of play in previous hands and aggresive players are more likely to get action as people have noticed in previous hands they are looser.
That gets given a term called METAGAME. which is information gained from other hands?

I must be wrong as thats a pretty flashy sounding term without alot (infact none)of new age info involved......but only briefly readup on a couple of websites


All u would have to do against these guys is widen ur range and call them down when u have a solid hand ie top pair good kicker or better......obviously if the board came very dangerous u raise when need be......but u would just not give him any credit for his betting it has more often than not got nothing to do with hole cards or community cards!!!

this could be the end of your tourney at times but over long haul u would gain from him as theres is bluffing then there is overbluffing.

Good players would get pushed around by Gus until like u say PO u simply adjust your game......So was / is Gus playing a level AHEAD of others or BHIND. I would go with the latter but as we see from the debate he is given credit for been both a donkey and a genius.

Rgds

[PLAYFUL1]

YAH PLAYFUL THINKS GUS IS THE BIGGEST DONK ..TAKES NO GENIUS TO PLAY ANY 2 CARDS..AND IN HIS CASE ANY 1 CARD LOL.....