Poker Bots are OK says Barry Greenstein

[scrawnybob]

hi all

interesting topic for discussion in 4kingpoker blog ...

Barry Greenstein has said he thinks Poker Bots should be allowed online

have a read in the blog for the full story and then let us know what you think here

Barry Greenstein & Bots ... Right or Wrong ?

cheers scrawnybob

[Whatsthepassword?]

I've got to agree with Mr Greenstein. Poker bots are OK at the tables as long as they are clearly identified as such - you can then make an informed decision as to whether you want to play against them or not.

As it currently stands, you could be sitting with one or more bots and be unaware what they are - believing everyone you're playing with is a human just like you.

At least enforcing a rule that bots must be declared will bring the whole issue out into the open.

The theory goes that bots' play is predictable and easily beatable so the more identified bots at your table the easier it should be to win...

[hojediade]

I don't agree with bots adding something to the game. Even tho it seems like a good idea to marked them, (but how by the way ?), i don't see the point with it.
I guess one day we will see a full ring tables of predictable bots and no players to chat with. Sick idea.

[Logan]

I agree with Hojediade, don't like the idea of make bots legal

The only one that can win something is the sites, because not only win the fees of games, but also have the chance to win the games and take the money of all players, then it could go to superuser bots, chip dumping from one to other, etc.

Really dislike the idea, don't understand the think to agree with that.

[Whatsthepassword?]

As a rule, I don't think any bots should be allowed on sites. But if they are going to be allowed then they should be identified and players should be given the option of playing with them or not.

There is a school of thought that some of the bigger sites actually place their own bots within games. It is pretty hard to prove this and I know that Bob does not believe it.

If big sites did place bots in games it would be a very ominous sign. How could we trust that a game would be run fairly if one or more players at the table were bots run by the house? The sites would obviously want those bots to win and take money off real players.

Again, it is not proven that this goes on, but there is a strong suspicion in certain quarters that this is the case.

All the more reason for bots - whether run by sites or outsiders - to be clearly identified. Then you can avoid those tables or just steer clear of that site altogether.

[spowers454]

I have played against bot before, including one whos nic was pokerbot something lol. But I really don't mind bots at all. While I don't care for them and would never use one I have no problems playing against them. If you can identify them then they can be beat. The go off stats and probabilities so you can use this to your advantage, not saying you will get rich of them but they are not instant winners. Barry just likes bots cause he is one lol.

[ND1991]

I guess I will go with the school of the thought -- they may be out there anyways and I would rather know what I am up against. Bots are just sophisticated programs that have a lot of rules and the really well programmed ones will even have subroutines for certains hands to "mix up their play". I would prefer to play against humans, but if against a bot, then I would want to know.

[pirates831]

disagree. wouldn't surprise me if i lost a lot to them though.

[scrawnybob]

hi all

thought this thread might be interesting ...

AFAIKS from what Barry Greenstein is saying he is talking about bots that players own - NOT bots that may or may not be "house bots"

now the reality is that there are some pretty iffy ads all over the net for buying "winning bot that earns money while you sleep" etc ... they are 90% scams

either out and out scams where you dont get anything or where you get something that is just a crock

bear in mind its the same for magic card predictors / see hole cards etc etc - basically all these programms do is guess (the same as any of us could) based on cards that have already gone ... a bit like a really drunk and stupid card counter at a blackjack table

anyway back to the bots ... some people (not really that many) have programs that will to a degree play themselves ...

these are NOT the ones you ever see for sale - think about it who would sell something that worked ?

the big and established sites IMHO DO NOT use bots ... they really dont need to and really dont need the risk of getting found out

however ... I DO think some very small sites employ house bots and they are really easy to spot as they are really little more than basic calling stations / fold machines ... they put them in to get games going in exactly the way that live casinos and in the early days more poker rooms paid prop players ... basically they got their winnings + hourly rate to start tables and keep tha action going ...

I dont think any of the medium / large sites even use prop players anymore - if you knew where to look you could get prop positions as they were advertised (it was a bit like rakeback)

anyway I think Barry is trying to acknowledge that some people are obviously spending alot of time developing bots and maybe it would be interesting to put them all at a table and see who has the best one ... a bit like the polaris challenge against Phil Lack ... then real players could if they really wanted to join the party

There are pro's and cons afaiks - so plenty more debate in this thread ;-)

cheers scrawnybob

[pokertoker]

I'm gonna have to vote NO...for two reasons;
(i) If I'm going to be spending x number of hours playing, I want my competitors to be as well.
(ii) I'd feel slightly embarrassed when a bot inevitably beats me