D or N bubble

[madjek]

I've been playing double or nothin sitngo's lately. I been playing really tight, almost always making it to the bubble, 6 players left, unless I get one of those crazy hands like A A vs K K or my A's get busted, though I almost never push allin myself. My problem is that it seems lately no one wants to take the chance to knock out 6th player, so small stack just picks his spot to push and everyone folds, unless they have a big pair. Yesterday I saw big stack fold to short stack and he showed A J. So my question is should I just wait around and hope for a big pair at the right time or at least for someone to get a big pair at the right time, or risk doubling up SS and putting myself at risk. Seems if I wait too long, I end up getting blinded down anyway. When is it worth the risk to pop bubble and end tourney. I think it's tougher in double or nothin's because there is no reward for big stack to take the risk, going to get paid the same no matter.

[NoWuckingFurries]

Generally speaking I think that calling an all-in would be -EV (according to Sklansky's gap concept). Better to steal blinds to keep yourself from being blinded out, the name of the game is stealing blinds and fold equity. You need to be at least relatively short in chips, and have a significant edge on villain's range to call shoves.

[LombardiStix]

I wouldn't necessarily define you problem as a bubble problem. If you are always short stacked to low medium stacked when you get to the bubble that would be your problem. Make sure you're taking opportunities to steal the blinds as they become critical in your stack formation. Also know that you can't always get the big cards sometimes you've got to make a stand without them. Work on building your stack before it becomes too late.

Stix

[madjek]

I wouldn't necessarily define you problem as a bubble problem. If you are always short stacked to low medium stacked when you get to the bubble that would be your problem. Make sure you're taking opportunities to steal the blinds as they become critical in your stack formation. Also know that you can't always get the big cards sometimes you've got to make a stand without them. Work on building your stack before it becomes too late.

Stix

I didn't say I was short stacked, in double or nothin tourney's, with 6 left (10 player tourney) the average stack is less than double starting stack. So the SS at that point usually just needs to double up to be back to average or close to it. Like I said, they usually pick their spots and push allin and steal blinds to maintain that stack. No one wants to call because most only have around average and don't want to take a chance at becoming SS on the bubble. My question was, is it worth is to take that chance or is it better to play real tight and hope someone else takes out SS.

[Poker Orifice]

I didn't say I was short stacked, in double or nothin tourney's, with 6 left (10 player tourney) the average stack is less than double starting stack. So the SS at that point usually just needs to double up to be back to average or close to it. Like I said, they usually pick their spots and push allin and steal blinds to maintain that stack. No one wants to call because most only have around average and don't want to take a chance at becoming SS on the bubble. My question was, is it worth is to take that chance or is it better to play real tight and hope someone else takes out SS.

It's not worth it to 'take that chance' (you can actually calculate the situation to see if the call is correct or not.... most often in a DoN it's 'not'). Why 'take a chance' when what your call in fact does is spread your tourney equity out amongst the others who are on the table? your 'call' is benefitting them far more than it's benefitting you.
It's much better to be shoving to steal blinds then to call off with say something like AJ.
really basically speaking... you can shove wide... but call real tight.

Read over "No Wucking Furries" response above - it's a good one.

[kingmotan]

Get sng wizard and learn about ICM a.s.a.p if you want to be at least breakeven in them.
But my real advice would be - don't play DoN's.

[tking888]

your right about there being no reward for big stack to take the risk. i play a lot of these types of games mostly on merge network. steal the blinds when your in position, avoid calling all ins, wait for your good hands and let the aggressors take out the donkeys. i find these tournys usually profitable and short time invested.

[NoWuckingFurries]

But my real advice would be - don't play DoN's.

The main disadvantage of Double or Nothing tournaments is boredom.

I find them useful because I am not the greatest player in the world, and I can multi-table them on a break-even basis to clear bonuses, whereas other types of SNG I tend to lose money when multi-tabling more than 3 or 4 tables at a time. With DoN tournaments I have run up to 15 at a time and still managed to break even.

[tking888]

omg, i would not enjoy playing that many games at all. i would find that nerve wrecking.

i forgot to add something i noticed about the about the d o n sitngo's- especially true on merge. depending on the time of day but you can usually find the same 3-4 people in the same ones. knowing how they play helps alot.

[NoWuckingFurries]

omg, i would not enjoy playing that many games at all. i would find that nerve wrecking.

Using a HUD makes it far more exhilarating and far less stressful - for me, anyway.