When to call ATC from BB as the SS

[SexyMonk]

We all know the situations, we havn't had any cards to steal blinds with lately or we have just taken a beat; whatever the reason WE are the short stack and the blinds are killing us.

There probably isn't a specific answer to this question, but a guideline would be nice:
How much of your stack can you invest paying the BB and still fold to a raise (assuming you have one of the worst possible hands)? I guess it's around 1/2 or a little less, giving you pot odds of 3,5:1 (if it's not the SB pushing), at least that's what I've been playing with.

Bring out some oppinions!

[Poker Orifice]

Yah, sometimes we don't get a spot period... OR it'd be better to wait til' we're in blinds to pick off deadmoney & 'possibly' getting heads up w one other opponent. There's actually a section in Collin Moshmann's book that is devoted to this type of scenario which is called "Playing the Miniscule stack (2BB or fewer)" There are a bunch of examples (HH's) in this section that go over situations similiar to what you're referring to. {actually the whole book is a really good read & well worth every penny spent on it}
Here is an intro. to this section quoted from his book...
Collin Moshmann - Sit'n Go Strategy pg. 175
It is a generally held belief that the best strategy for short-stacked play is to pick a spot and push all-in to steal the blinds. This is typically the right idea. But depending on just how short-stacked you are, this principle may not hold.
Suppose you are on the losing end of a big coinf-flip all-in and find yourself with under two big blinds left in chips. Clearly you will need to catch some hands and a little luck. But is there anything you can do to maximize your chances of a successful recovery?

The answer is 'yes'. You must seize all oppurtunities to take advantage of pseudo-dead-money.
"Pseudo-dead-money" refers to chips from players who will probably not be active in the pot. In particular this means blinds who must call an all-in or other large bet.

This leads to our primary observation:
If your stack is two blinds or fewer, and you are not a blind yourself, the Aggression Principle breaks down: you now want to be the one calling the bet. Indeed, certain situations require a stronger hand to make an all-in that to call one.

This is because when you are very short-stacked and are calling an all-in, the pseudo-dead-money from the blinds is enormous relative to your stack.

I'll leave it at that (thanks Collin... perhaps a plug for your book?... for sure it is... it's a great book!!!).

There's a handful of HandHistories outlining good spots (& not so good) to get it in while on a 'Miniscule Stack'.

[Poker Orifice]

As far as what odds we need to be calling allins (although not necessarily while on a shortstack as there may be other factors to consider)... more so in MTT play (& we'll assume that by calling the allin we're still left with a stack of at least 14-23bb's so we're still in a position to re-steal)... one would need the following>>
If we're getting 2:1 we can call with Top40%
2.2:1 " " " " 'trashy' but nice ( 74s)
2.5:1 " " " " atc (any two cards)

[PLAYFUL1]

POT ODDS OHHHHHHHHH MYYYYYYYYYY THATS WHEN PLAYFUL CALLS AN ALL - IN ESPECIALLY IF SHE'S THE CHIP LEADER

[pirates831]

i wish i could tell you an easy rule to follow.

i can't put my finger on an exact point where i'm calling ATC in the BB ... its less than 5 BB. i don't think i'd call at 5 BB with 27o, etc. At 4 BB, the calling range is a little wider. At 3, I think I'm calling ATC.

It all depends on the situation though.

Are you close to the bubble? It's extremely hard to fold into the money, but it can be done if you are at an aggressive/idiotic table. Some people just don't pay attention to the situation around them.

[Washerwoman]

i agree with poker and sexy, otherwise fold

[BluffYou123]

Interesting one this.

I was playing a $6 turbo 18 man tonight on Full Tilt and was in a spot of bother (as you will often find yourself in these games).

I was getting complete trash every hand and ended up in the bb with 440 chips (blinds 200/400) with 82o (lol) and quadrupled up hitting 2 pair vs a limping idiot (who bubbled btw) with QJ and another guy with AK,

Turbo games aren't really a good example but I am just trying to show that going with live cards isn't such a bad thing sometimes.

If you are really short-stacked, sometimes you just have to shove and pray.

"Suited Shit" (excuse my french) is often a good hand to go with if you're desperate.

Just don't get your stack down to a point where the pot isn't worth winning particularly if there are antes in play.

[pokerstudent]

I don't like going with A-rag type hands because you are often domanated. I would much rather two live cards....like J10, QJ or suited 10 9. I don't like cards too low so that if you hit a card, it might be beat. Anything less than 8 for top card, I fold.