Not for Novice's! ADVANCED HOLEM chin wag.

[GypsyTea]

Part 2:

Recap

Hopefully we have established our Risk Exposure, and we have established our desired earnings per Day.

Now like I said before The Pro’s say you need between 300 to 600 big bets depending on who you listen to, Now all I am going to say about that is, the less Big Bets you have the More Risk Exposure You have, this should be off set by “Buying Into “ a lower stakes Game, BUT DOES IT? Well the answer is , If your Risk Exposure puts you into micro or low stakes, Some one will be playing at that stakes with NO RISK EXPOSER AT ALL (NegRX or –RX) ~so you will get called more the lower the stakes you play by more people!

This is not good if you are playing on the edge of Good Bank Roll Management with a High Risk Exposure. (+++RX)

All gobbledygook, well it might be so to try and simplify, you are not going to make wages playing under $2/$4 Stakes, on the net IMHO.

For $2/$4 you need 4x500BB= $2000 bucks per game, that’s 20 buyins at $100, Now If this was the case I would not personally want a Risk Exposure of NO more than 25%~~ so that’s 500$> and a Return of Investment ( ROI) of 50% so for every 2k I would want 1K back and I would be prepared to lose $500

NB* ROI = Return of Investment
-RX = Negative Risk Exposure
RX = Risk Exposure
BB* = Big Bets, related to the big blind

Now, “The Pros” say 300 to 600 BB, On a computer I feel this is a little low, I understand what ever ones saying, but Like Witchy says YOU SEE MORE HANDS, and YOU see them in a sorter TIME LINE, I also feel some times for me Game Money (GM) gets roped into TOTAL BANK ROLL (TBR) I know some folks are going to disagree with me on this but my point is simply this:-

Game X $5/$10 NLHD CASH

500 BB* = $5000

Most people say this is the Roll (R*) requires to play this game, I do not call it Bankroll,
I call it GAME ROLL, what happens if the shit hits the fan? And it does Often on the web, Do you walk?, Do you Stay, Do you Rebuy?, Difficult isn’t it!, Well threes no standard answer, BUT for me and I hate to repeat myself, IT DEPENDS.

I personally would not go into this game with out My RULE 4.

Rule4:-

NEVER start a Business that is UNDERFUNDED!

The Game above I would want a roll of $15k, 3x$5k buy ins, Yes I may be playing shit and loose 5k chasing that juicy looking Royal on the turn and River, But I know that “THE FORCE IS WITH ME” so I may want , after sussing out that I am playing 9 Rocks, STAY IN AND RE_BUY, I know what hands they are playing, and Man I know I am going to HIT some time, and Take it down LARGE. On the other Hand I might not want to play after I lose the 5k I might just know that the Force IS NOT WITH ME~~ but after all that:-

I NEED OPTIONS, and if I only go with 5k and Lose, I have NO OPTION but Walk!

Like I said I CHOSE THE GAME, I ALSO CHOSE when to LEAVE the Game, +ROI YOU have to make the choices NOT the game have them make you choice for YOU.

To be a Master of the Game YOU control it, it doesn’t control you, or instead of Master of the Game you are Slave of the Game.

<more later> ( and yes we will turn a computer on to pick a game, but we have to chose who brings the game to us and where we may feel our money is best put and the reasons why.

Best Regards



Some Great stuff coming from you guys lets roll, jawjaw is GOOD warwar is BAD

[vlada85]

you are so right, you must be some kind of wiseman

that was exactly i get busted so often, i was playing games way over my gameroll as u call it. so for the 1000k buy in game ill need at least 10k for nlhd, right? but for unexpirienced player more like 20k. i dont have that kind of money so i won't playing that kind of games, and as someone said(u or scrawny) u wont made some wages in games lower then 2/4$, should i play stngo's or mtt's, does this rule implies to tournaments (10$ buy in, need at least 100$), and stngo ROI is about 6% according to some pros.

i'm looking forward to your answer

[witchywitchy]

Bankroll management and keeping good records. At the end of the day everything goes into a spreadsheet. I keep track so at a glance I can see my total bankroll and how I am doing at each venue I play.

[jacks_off4me]

Originally Posted by witchywitchy

Bankroll management and keeping good records. At the end of the day everything goes into a spreadsheet. I keep track so at a glance I can see my total bankroll and how I am doing at each venue I play.

yeah i agree. sometimes i play really enthusiastic and sometimes for killing time/keep in shape for my live games with friends or more serious live tourneys and i know that for a gambler like me it would be very easy to loose a big cut of my BRL as well as winning it- because ot the fact i see many "beautifull" hands online than i usually do....

p.s witchywitchy i'm sorry that i kicked you out at the football tournament - i was intended to win it and leaving you the second place, but if someone checks - its always NOTHING or A TRAP such as one you fell into yesterday

[scrawnybob]

hi

another great thread - and gypsy has explained inmuch better terms alot of what I've been getting at

ie. whatever limits your playing you have to be realistic about how big your total bankroll / playable fund is

it's no good putting in $20-$50 to a poker site and playing 5/10 cent and being suprised if you bust out ... for this you need to have mental / actual budget / bankroll of at least $200
even if you drip feed it in

I also agree that the lower down the scale while the potential % profit maybe higher - that is generally because the players are worse and therefore higher chance of busting out as well as the upside of higher easier % profit

in terms of my advice - it's always difficult to suggest things that would work for a very small bankroll and a big / medium one in the same breath

and if a small stakes / new player follows suggestions for a bigger player this could be counterproductive

in short if your playing recreationally then you mustn't play beyond your finances (generally) it should just be money you can afford to loose

that way if you deposit $50 x 4 over a couple of months or 4 months because that is what you can afford to loose - then that is responsible

if at the end of playing $200 bankroll at 5/10 cent you have nothing then you need to shape up your game - if your playing reasonably you should make at least a modest profit and then continue to build (playing the same limits)

playing these kind of stakes your unlikely to make a living at it - but as Gypsy pointed out if you have aspiration of making living expense / profit / income from poker you need to play higher stakes -

this means a much bigger bankroll and the same realistic bankroll approach - ideally gypsy's higher number of buy-ins is wise

dont go trying games that need a $2000-$5000 roll if you only have $1000 that is just bad planning

In terms of playing MMT's or SNG's rather than cash on a small bankroll - my advice was more directed at the new new player who has little experience in any of the games

IMHO SNG's are a good place to start the ROI isn't that high but the experience and time played for the investment is well worth it - on the MT tournament front you shouldnt be expecting to cash tat often so unless you have the bankroll you need to be only putting 2-3% in per buy-in (if you havent got enough - stick with SnG's and then try cash games)

cheers scrawnybob

[GypsyTea]

Hello Vlada

you are so right, you must be some kind of wiseman

Thank you for your kind words, but no I am just an independent “punter” who loves poker/cards and to be honest I get a little tired of “The Small” player being manipulated out of their money for greed, with no love of the game Miscreant’s. But I do understand Business and the concept of Wages/Salary. So if its safe sane, consensual, and fair, I approve, any thing else I am the Sheriff from Hell.

that was exactly i get busted so often, i was playing games way over my gameroll as u call it. so for the 1000k buy in game ill need at least 10k for nlhd, right? but for unexpirienced player more like 20k. i

Yes, You are under funded, its not a fault it’s a common mistake, if you play a game with a +Risk exposure, i.e. you only have X money and you need X-25% to live off, you should only be playing a game for 25%X, It is possible to win, but any decision you make , at the back of your mind you will always be thinking about how you can not afford to lose “the Money”, The poker slang for this is Scared Money. So As a Pro I would be looking for as a priority “Scared Money” players at my table. I know they are going to be playing Sklansky Group 1 or maybe group 2 (depending on how “Scared the Money” is!) hands.

This means I am able to “OUT PLAY” them on the turn or the flop.
I define a +RX as A positive risk, i.e. you think you have a risk with your money and although you may be prepared to lose it, it has some ripple effect on your life. ( not sure I am explaining this well however)

A negative -RX has NO effect on your life, i.e. you need a cigarette and you light it with a 20 dollar bill, you are that rich!

The more +++ you have the deeper the ripple effect, so if you decide to play with your rent money and you lose you don’t pay the rent, that’s a serious ripple on your life, YES/NO?
And viceversa re Negative RX ----.

Now the nice thing about this concept is I am not saying don’t play poker I am saying play poker within your budget and we all have to be wise to what we can or cannot lose!

I am also saying for EVERY budget there is a poker game with NegRX, We just have to find it.

dont have that kind of money so i won't playing that kind of games, and as someone said(u or scrawny) u wont made some wages in games lower then 2/4$,

I was a bit naughty here saying that (even tho it is true) Why, It is possible to make some wages at lower stakes, You would have to have a small definition of wages, you would have to be a grinder, and you would have to play rock solid poker for a long time, Man it’s hard I tried it, for me it was not worth the time, $10 a hour is not my idea of wages. $500 an Hour is.

should i play stngo's or mtt's, does this rule implies to tournaments (10$ buy in, need at least 100$), and stngo ROI is about 6% according to some pros.

Now what I have seen on every poker server the micro stakes game has been set up so no player makes more than 3 times the maximum buy in for the table! How F**king Annoying if you are a skilled player who wants to play poker for 4 to 5 hours, and not flit about from game to game, The SERVER Owners don’t want you to win more than that in one game ( I feel the KK getting cracked all ready by AceRag shit <smile>) for some reason (I will be naming names and tell you all why a lot later) and if any poker server owners want to face me off over it I be there ANY TIME ANY PLACE with my Second’s! And TRUST ME you better be able to use a foil or shoot straight!

Last night on 3 different poker servers I was tearing apart 3 different cash tables, from $10 max to $2000max buyins I get to 3 times the max buyins for the 3 tables and go out of the games after 1 hr ish, with AA,KK,QQ,Aks,TT urmmm I AM after YOU code writers! In one server I cashed in a 115 player sit&go 2900 bucks 1st place!! Even the 2k table players all commented on my bad beats! 3 Different Servers!!!

For a $10 buy in I would just bank roll it from you credit card as long as you can control how many you play, 4 a night is 2 too many depending on the game.

Now I am going to answer this , it’s pre-empting what I was going to say in a later post in this thread, anyway, I was going to say That I personally suggest if a player is playing on a tight RX, that for want of a figure lets say $100, that its better to go to full tilt and play $1.25 sit&goes 90 player, where you get $22+change for a win. WHY?

Well you are getting 22 to 1 for your money, You are playing a game you love, It’s a cheap and more education than watching television, In poker terms it’s a great way to “hone” your poker skills.

Now your 6% ROI, I have not met you, I have seen no hand histories, so I fancy a stab in the dark at why its 6% and you can suss out if I talk bollocks or not, I suspect you are calling to much with Ako,Aqo,Ajo and other connected paint ( face cards) in the wrong position, early to mid game session, I also feel you may be defending your blinds with any shit pocket cards, another common mistake ( because some smarty pants pro say DEFEND YOUR BLINDS, Not true defend them with a hand that’s true.

I also think that when the antes start hurting you tend to panic a little and get involved in the hand when you should be “making coffee” if you understand my Brit humor.

I think you will be:-

Semi Tight preflop/ Semi aggressive post flop/ Passive to negative on the turn/ Negative on the river

This can be sorted out but it would be difficult for me to do in email or posts. I would have to see you play.

i'm looking forward to your answer

No problem Hope this helps, post in here there must be a million questions on what I wrote to you.

Keep up the good work,

Playwell in the swamp,

Best regards

Gypsy

[vlada85]

thanx for answer! it was quita a bit longer then i expected though u are right yet again. its just i usually play now stngos 1-2$ buy ins 9-10ppl, and i'm chip leader till there are 3 of us left, and then i get cracked with kk, blinds get higher, and i ofetn finish 2nd or 3rd to a guy who just happened to get overpair overcard...yes i am calling too often with AK AJ AQos, and often get cracked A2 A5s or just a pair. i get confused in the finish when i should just lean on them and wait, preffer tea then coffee.

i didnt say my roi on stngos is 6% but some pros tell that, so i wonder if is it different with your stats. but i often have to retrieve my money by winning some larger stngo 30 or more ppl, and in the end i dont proffit much. dont like cash games, cause i get too much crazy calls on lowest tables, and i cant stress myself to win a buck an hour

ill reread your post later and ask more questions that im sure you'll have the answer for. thanks

[okeedokalee]

Good advice GT set a take out target and when you hit it walk away, when i finally started doing this punting horses i made money.

[GypsyTea]

Part 3: Picking a poker server.

Now there’s 1 thing that annoy’s me out more than anything else about net poker, and that is YOU pay them instantly, and when YOU with-draw some of “Them” F**K you Around and don’t pay you instantly!

So if a site says there going to pay you with in 2 to 4 days you say I pay you in 2 to 4 days and F**k them Off. 2 working days is 1 working day to long IMHO!

THE WAY TO TEST a poker servers banking system is:- Put $50 into an account via net tella, play for a day or two, and withdraw your money, SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES!

It total bad manners, bad business, and completely stupid, It only makes sense if they are a ”Micky mouse” out fit, and then I wouldn’t bother with them anyway. Remember My rule 4 well it applies to poker providers just as much as poker players!

Now I would suggest (and don’t say I didn’t warn you) that you DO NOT use any site that uses a THIRD party banking system like web dollar or ewallet, It is a total PAIN in the a$$ trying to get your money if some thing is not working, or you close your poker account, and wish to open another account at a later date, for what ever reason.

So: The Best sites I have found so far for quick payments( and none of them pay me to say it) are:- ( not in any order of prority)

1.Carbon Poker
2.William Hills
3.BlueSquare
4.BET 365
5.FullTilt
6.RED32

Ok now you will need a nettella account, so sign up and verify the account in full using the account extension to make your account hold 25k or more if possible ( it depends on your bank credentials if they let you have more)

If a poker server ask you to produce your ID ~~~ DO NOT PLAY ON THERE! You have already done it with
Nettella, so make sure the poker server knows YOU are NOT going to be f**k about with ever!

Now when I started 11 years ago, I spilt a £100,000.00 TBR in to 4 sections, £20,000.00 each into 3 net poker servers via nettella, and £40,000.00 cash for live play. I strongly suggest you split what ever your TBR is and do the same in relation to 3xnetpokers sites and 1 cash TGR (total game roll)

So Your TBR should look like this 40% cash Live Play 20%+20%+20% net poker, in 3 different servers and 3 different Poker Alias’s, and 3 different poker providers. So 60% would not all be in let’s say iPoker for example.

This means you have 4 INDEPENDENT TOTAL GAME ROLLS (TGR)

Now primarily I am a tournament player, I do play cash but its not often, on the web I would say you make more money in the long run playing big tournaments with low buy-ins, so you have to pick these with a modicum of intelligence, You need to look for low-buy in feeder tournaments to either Large Pay out net tourneys or net feeders to Live games with complementary packages attached i.e. a poker cruise or a spending money and hotel package thrown in with a live buy-in.

Not only should you make money, you should fund a few decent “Busman’s Holidays” keeping your other half sweet, taking Her/him along for the ride.

On the net I keep reading Cash games for bankroll~~~Well I am sorry it’s not true, I don’t know any poker pro (and I know a lot) who has not had to re ROLL after going bust on the net, who just plays net cash!

If I didn’t do tournaments I would have had to,re-ROLL (BadBeats) and I am a ROCK Solid Poker Player. I am not sure we should call them bad beats on the net I think they should be re-named
“rip-off rivers~~ROR”.

I cant tell you how many ACTION Flops I have “seen/had” in the last month on the net, I can tell you how many I have seen Live for the last 3 months, and I have played 7 live tournaments in that 3 months!!!

Now I am not saying you don’t get bad beats in live play in fact I had KK cracked the other day in a tournament by 99, 9 hitting the river, but luckily it didn’t knock me out of the tournament I recovered and came back with a very strong finish. But on the net the swings are Dramatic to your game roll if you are in the wrong game!

NOW the last thing about picking a poker server is this: - If you are investing more than £10,000.00 bonuses are NOT a Mathematical Factor!

In any case you SHOULD NOT pick a site because it promises you 100% bonus. BE WARNED some of the sites offering the best bonuses are the worst sites for playing poker on, you get too many “bonus whores” taking a lucky punt on any crap, as long as they don’t spend there buy-ins.

Play well in the swamp

Gypsy

[GypsyTea]

"I generally look for a juicy table rather than a table full of rocks or sharks - but this will inherently mean the table will have alot more swings and alot more potential for suckouts" BOB


This is not as easy as it looks on the web.

GypsyTIP: LIVE CASH

When picking a game at a cash table, and you see a high roller bouncing money around, take some time watching at the rail, before you jump in!, L@@k at the punters Shoes! if they are expensive and Clean, including the soles:-

HE does'nt give a shit about the money, He can afford it, HE will NOT be Frightened to LOOK YOU UP! DONT BLUFF

If they are dirty and cheap ( his shoes) he is playing with SCARED MONEY! even if he his wearing a Savile Row Suit!!! BLUFF




GT