Not for Novice's! ADVANCED HOLEM chin wag.

[GypsyTea]

Pontifications from the bar near the Cashier.

OK every ones entitled to an opinion, and that’s fine, however I think I have read every book there is on poker except Phil Gordon’s Green and Blue books, which is on order from Amazon, if they could get off there arses in the next week I would be happy, anyway We all could say play this, bet that,pre flop this, pre flop that, etc etc, but the real truth is AA does get cracked, and ANY 2 cards can win any pot at any time, so what’s the answer?

I think some of the answer is this:-

Net Poker.

It does not matter how good a holdem player you are, how big you balls are, how much math’s you can fire at a situation, The One key thing about net poker is, GAME SELECTION.

You can be the world poker champion and if you are in the wrong game on the net you are STUFFED! You are going to show a negative ROI. I once saw a very famous UK pro drop $40k to a very well known NET pro, WHY? Neither of them is better than one another, I just think that the live pro was in the wrong game and got ambushed, he did it to him self, Live play is far different than net poker and that I can PROMISE.

GAME SELECTION.

Now the first think to do when playing net poker no matter who you are is 1. Cheek the six-shooter and the ego at the door, neither are any use on a computer and names count for fuck all.

One thing counts on a computer and that’s MONEY

If you read what most Pro players say for buy-in requirements I think it is too low for computer poker, I have read 300 to 600 big bets and they always add “If you are any good”! Mrmm well any monkey can play AA pre flop allin and that doesn’t win all the time now does it!, I also read AA will win 75% of the time, sorry not according to my figures it doesn’t over 10 years computer poker, I have it down to “49%rounded”.

How do we pick a game on the computer?

Well the answer to that is a full talking point on its own, and who says I am right what I tell you, I can only say what has been successful for me and what has not been successful for me, OK does any one want to hear it?

I catch you all later please add comments and If you want to know what I do I post it in this thread

Bye for now, playwell in the swamp

[kingjames07]

i for one would love to hear your wisdom on this GT

[witchywitchy]

I entirely agree with you GypsyTea and this is something that too many do not get. How many hands an hour do you see live vs. online? The size of the sampling for statistics greatly changes the outcome. What ever the books tell you on the odds of this hand or that hand .... throw it out the window

Secondly, live players vs. online players -- way different!!! Too many online poker players haven't a clue what they are doing... they are just imitating the highly edited WSOP final table tactics. Or the online player is actually a sportsbook gambler - flush with cash - and wants some excitement so they decide to play some poker.

I am tired of being told the ATC players will lose. I recently played a forum league. The good solid poker players were getting killed by 3 donkeys. It wasn't until the last few league games the donkeys ATC stopped hitting.... not enough time to recoup the loss's that were racked up.

I'm primarily a tournament player.... one of the things I look for is a steady group of the same players. The donkeys may money a few times... but with the majority of players knowing what they are doing... the odds are not in favor of the donkey.

Curious to hear your thoughts on picking games

[GypsyTea]

Picking a Game: How I do it. PART 1.

OK now I prefer to play live no doubt about it, unfortunately I make a lot more money on the web. WHY? Game selection.

If I want to play legit poker with an element of safe sane and consensual and without myself getting arrested, it has to be a card room or casino, I’ve done with all those seedy under ground games, so getting a game to make some wages, depending on your definition of wages, can be somewhat tricky, I like to turn over at least $2000 for any given 15 hours of work, so if I played and won 350 days a year I should be looking at $700,000.00. Well let’s get this straight, There NOT a cat in hells chance of Moi playing 350x15 hr sessions, live or on the net. I chose the above figures for one simple reason, I don’t get out of bed for less than A Grand a Day pounds sterling. I don’t need to; it’s as simple as that.

So My RULE 1. Establish YOUR Criteria in regard to wages/salary. Set your target,
When you hit your wages/salary target for the day WALK AWAY!

Now I know it will not be long before someone says I seen that T**T playing $1 sit&goes in Fulltilt what’s he going on about ¾ a million bucks for,

Well my RULE 2 is:-

If I don’t NEED wages any more, it has to INTEREST ME! so having said that I would rather win 12 bucks for playing 3 hours THAN lose $10,000 playing 5 hrs, The money is not important to me in regard to winning, its VERY important in regard to losing, Don’t get me wrong I on many occasions go with 3x5k buy-ins with me I just don’t do it every NIGHT, I pick MY games, and if I see a game with 7 pros and 2 fish in it I am NOT going to be the 10th Pro feeding on small lickings.

Now one point to mention here is this, I said I PICK THE GAME, that means in plain ENGLISH, If someone challenges you to a game and its life changing money WALK AWAY, and its for this reason, Its about DISCIPLINE, or should I say SELF Discipline, if you are all testosterone up you will not play winning poker, and humans are all fired up at the thought of a challenge, they can’t help it. YOU have to be a walking mathematical Cyborg, its business, NO Ideology, NO Empathy, NO Quarter, or Charity, its Money; if you don’t want business don’t go to the meeting.

Rule3:- The second you buy in a GAME it’s NOT your money, it’s the GAMES MONEY.

Now there’s NO point if you lose in bitching about it, the other players didn’t play your cards, Did THEY!, so remember , Establish YOUR Criteria in regard to wages, You HAVE to Establish YOUR individual EXPOSURE to RISK !. If you CAN NOT sit in front of the Woman you are having SEX with and BURN in front of her eyes the money you are going to play cards with, YOU are playing TOO RICH.

OK Now I am going to play cards and Try and win some money, so I write some more when we have absorbed the above, please feel free to kick it around and discus it in here, Like I said I am not always right, over to you guys.

[jacks_off4me]

more! post more of this GT. you maybe not always right but you're never wrong!

[scrawnybob]

hi guys

very interesting thread - and I have to agree with Gypsy

game selecion is very important and undertanding how to play at different types of tables is IMHO very important too

ideally you want to spend time selecting a juicy table to play at - and crucially understand what by selecting a juicy table you can expect

I generally look for a juicy table rather than a table full of rocks or sharks - but this will inherently mean the table will have alot more swings and alot more potential for suckouts

as a player its your responsibility to grasp this - if YOU let players limp / chase etc when you dont want them to - then your not in control

I want to sit at a table where the stats suggest the players are both

a) seeing way to many flops / turn etc and playing too many hands

b) the average pot sizes are way above what you would expect for that stake

but I want to see both of these - therefore the bulk of the players are prepared to put in alot of money when they are behind and pay you off for your strong hands

now if you see only one or the other of these then you could be sitting at a table of sharks or loose limpers who also dont put much money in

ie. they are either generally tight aggressive getting big pots for big hands or they are seeing every hand to the river but only making small bets (like a limit game)

neither of these is any good to us - we want weak. loose gamblers who will loose big on a bluff / draw or stupidity far more than they will win when they hit their lucky hands

ONLINE V LIVE

I've said this before in several places - related to why people have "more" bad beats online etc

it's in the nature of online poker for 2 reasons -

a) you see between 2-3 times as many hands online than in a live game

b) online players (inexperienced / non improvers or just their for fun with real money) do NOT have the shame / embarrasement factor of turning over a sack of cr*p and being laughed out of the casino - they can do what they like so they will play badly and not improve unless they really make an effort

c) this leads to far more player either actually staying in a hand or at least wanting to - so
you need to know when you have to push out players that are dangerous by their collective stupidity

you can beat one idiot (thats how the money is made) but letting 4 idiots play a hand against you makes your loss a virtual certainty - 4 to the flop generally means 2 to the turn and one to the river (by then they aint gona fold for all the tea in China)

these factors combined is why you see 4- 5 or even 6-7 times the bad beats and the accepted statistical odds of things SEEM to go to pot online

bottom line the maths is still the same but collectively the players are not - they effectively change the odds due to massive implied odds either in your favour or against

look at it like this is you got dealt one hand and a monkey got dealt 9 hands in the same round - what are the odds of your AA getting beat if you let the monkey play all 9 hands ?

exactly - AA would loose virtually every time

the only other thing I would add is their is NOTHING wrong with you limping in on hands IF the situation is right - this is something you have to do - it's no good just playing AA you have to be creative - but not so creative at a loose table that you think your playing some major tactical battle against the top pro players - that is a waste of time

if you can genuinely see a cheap flop with a hand that has great potential or implied odds then go for it - but poker is all about playing smart - and sometimes playing smart means solid ABC poker against retards who either think they are Phil Helmuth or more likely have no clue why they shouldnt just keep calling

hope thats a help

cheers scrawnybob

[GypsyTea]

"The size of the sampling for statistics greatly changes the outcome." witchywitchy



ps* Ham and Eggs, sunny side up, side order of beans and hash browns,Home made cornbread, mega tripple expresso no sugar ( I am sweet enough) no milk, HOT BLACK JOE, mrmmm Witchy I am in Lovvveeee. I will even take off my sixshooter and put it on the back of my chair, do I have to remove my hat? psst love Illinois, OBTW any place to park the Pinto, she only eats hey, and the odd corn dodger.

[GypsyTea]

"you can beat one idiot (thats how the money is made) but letting 4 idiots play a hand against you makes your loss a virtual certainty - 4 to the flop generally means 2 to the turn and one to the river (by then they aint gona fold for all the tea in China)" BOB

So true it hurt's

[witchywitchy]

"you can beat one idiot (thats how the money is made) but letting 4 idiots play a hand against you makes your loss a virtual certainty - 4 to the flop generally means 2 to the turn and one to the river (by then they aint gona fold for all the tea in China)" BOB

So true it hurt's

So very much .... but the one I especially love thinks he is "Mike the Mouth" reraising all the way to the river with NADA trying to intiminate me.... And I'm holding the nuts just letting him bet into me.... WooHoo Big Payday

[scrawnybob]

hi

yep that has to be another top tip - never try to bluff the unbluffable

you can bluff one player at a table where the player(s) will respect a bluff

but that totally relies on that fact they need to be players who understand more than the basics of poker

if they are manaics or new players - they will (bizarrely) look at a big bet on the turn or river as more money in the pot therefore (in their logic) more reason to call and/or raise

the same play from a beginner or an experienced player can mean 2 very different things and ultimately two very different outcomes

same applies with betting the pot or betting under / over the pot

I've had games at good tables (where the challenge of beating similar or better players is enjoyable profit but not easy profit) ...

where I've literally bet the minimum into a good sized pot (representing holding the nuts and inviting a raise) only to have the other player fold in disgust - moaning about me rivering a flush (which is was a million miles aways from)

mathmatically they should have called even with a miss deal and only having one card infront of them - but they fold because they have over thought the hand

that is only going to happen at a table where they are respecting and fearing your play - at a table full of donks / learners / gamblers ... there is absolutely no way they would call a single BB bet on the river - they simply have to see the hand ... even a pot size bet is unlikely to get a fold or all-in

play the players - but to do that you have to understand the minds of your opposition - and alot of the time they really are not thinking

cheers scrawnybob